All-Star The Thread To Stop The Hijacking Of The Cea Thread

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Sad but true. So what other options exist for the smaller gym to survive? Sending a team called Level 5 to Worlds to place 50th out of 50 is not going to carry you for long in any market. There has to be a niche somewhere that can be effectively marketed. Unless someone figures out that answer I'm not sure how any of the proposed rule changes are going to make a difference one way or another in the survival of the small gyms.

None of those rule changes can fix the problem you stated above. Either you have the athletes to compete at the higher levels or you don't. Pushing them up and down levels by crossing over isn't going to put you on par with a higher level team fully loaded with athletes at true level. It may benefit a small gym at the lower levels, but the scenario you just stated negates the value of that.

I am probably the wrong one to answer this because I personally am not on the "go to Worlds or your program sucks" train. I also dont believe you need crossovers except in case of injury, illness or absence. Not that I dont understand the model CEA uses, it just is not my personal preference. I don't have a win at all costs mindset. I spend way more time in the gym in practices, open gym, privates and just hanging out building happy positive relationships than I will ever spend with them at a competition. I choose to maximize the former time and let the latter shake out however it shakes out.

This by no means is an excuse or platform for mediocrity. It is building within on your on terms and timeline, without being forced to compete at a level until you are ready and even then looking at is as a journey rather than a win or else event. As long as your customers are fully educated on your vision and what to reasonably expect, you should be able to retain enough to grow the business. Even if it is at a slower pace than buying/merging with other gyms.

My belief is that you have to stay true to the vision you have for your gym, stay in the boundries of the rules, keep your tumble classes and other programs just as well staffed as you do your highest level cheer team, do you and quite frankly the hell with everybody else. If you sell your parents, athletes, and community on your vision, give them a quality product w/ value against their $$$ you can survive and thrive in this market. You don't have to have a level 5 program to do it. You don't have to have a Worlds team to do it. You just gotta have the belief that you can excel being true to you instead of trying to be like everybody else or trying to impress others.
 
This has been a great dialogue. Thank you to everyone who contributed and gave us a great learning experience and thoughts to ponder, based on your own observations and lessons learned. And thanks to everyone who took the time to read it and absorb what was said to all of us by those who live in this business environment every day. Maybe it can help us narrow the focus of these topics.

But I still have one question, and this is the 4th or 5th time I have asked this question. It has never been answered here. In regard to the quote above. What happened? Where and how can we contribute to the forward progress?

I believe that it is/was too big a project to accomplish in a short time frame. It is a huge challenge for the small group of USASF employees to get rules and scoresheets out in time, much less create/maintain database, distribute cards, set up infrastructure, etc.

That is a guess on my part.
 
I am probably the wrong one to answer this because I personally am not on the "go to Worlds or your program sucks" train. I also dont believe you need crossovers except in case of injury, illness or absence. Not that I dont understand the model CEA uses, it just is not my personal preference. I don't have a win at all costs mindset. I spend way more time in the gym in practices, open gym, privates and just hanging out building happy positive relationships than I will ever spend with them at a competition. I choose to maximize the former time and let the latter shake out however it shakes out.

This by no means is an excuse or platform for mediocrity. It is building within on your on terms and timeline, without being forced to compete at a level until you are ready and even then looking at is as a journey rather than a win or else event. As long as your customers are fully educated on your vision and what to reasonably expect, you should be able to retain enough to grow the business. Even if it is at a slower pace than buying/merging with other gyms.

My belief is that you have to stay true to the vision you have for your gym, stay in the boundries of the rules, keep your tumble classes and other programs just as well staffed as you do your highest level cheer team, do you and quite frankly the hell with everybody else. If you sell your parents, athletes, and community on your vision, give them a quality product w/ value against their $$$ you can survive and thrive in this market. You don't have to have a level 5 program to do it. You don't have to have a Worlds team to do it. You just gotta have the belief that you can excel being true to you instead of trying to be like everybody else or trying to impress others.
Dang, aren't you somewhere down near the St. Louis area? My son just moved my grandbabies away from O'Fallon. I am going to tell him he needs to move them back so their Yiayia can watch them cheer. :)
 
I believe that it is/was too big a project to accomplish in a short time frame. It is a huge challenge for the small group of USASF employees to get rules and scoresheets out in time, much less create/maintain database, distribute cards, set up infrastructure, etc.

That is a guess on my part.

You know, that is a tall order to fill bureaucratically. Thousands of gyms, hundreds of thousand athletes, a whole lot of education and buy in by the industry. I'll bet you can chalk it it to bureaucratic inertia.
 
I am probably the wrong one to answer this because I personally am not on the "go to Worlds or your program sucks" train. I also dont believe you need crossovers except in case of injury, illness or absence. Not that I dont understand the model CEA uses, it just is not my personal preference. I don't have a win at all costs mindset. I spend way more time in the gym in practices, open gym, privates and just hanging out building happy positive relationships than I will ever spend with them at a competition. I choose to maximize the former time and let the latter shake out however it shakes out.

This by no means is an excuse or platform for mediocrity. It is building within on your on terms and timeline, without being forced to compete at a level until you are ready and even then looking at is as a journey rather than a win or else event. As long as your customers are fully educated on your vision and what to reasonably expect, you should be able to retain enough to grow the business. Even if it is at a slower pace than buying/merging with other gyms.

My belief is that you have to stay true to the vision you have for your gym, stay in the boundries of the rules, keep your tumble classes and other programs just as well staffed as you do your highest level cheer team, do you and quite frankly the hell with everybody else. If you sell your parents, athletes, and community on your vision, give them a quality product w/ value against their $$$ you can survive and thrive in this market. You don't have to have a level 5 program to do it. You don't have to have a Worlds team to do it. You just gotta have the belief that you can excel being true to you instead of trying to be like everybody else or trying to impress others.

There are definitely very different ways to run a gym and there is no single "right" way. For example, comparing us, Spirit, Stingrays, Top Gun, CEA, etc. would often reveal very stark differences in focus and philosophy. There are things I greatly respect about each of those programs, things we have learned from them, and things that I absolutely disagree with. I'm sure they feel the same about us. We all have found ways to be successful without simply molding our businesses into carbon copies of each other.
 
There are definitely very different ways to run a gym and there is no single "right" way. For example, comparing us, Spirit, Stingrays, Top Gun, CEA, etc. would often reveal very stark differences in focus and philosophy. There are things I greatly respect about each of those programs, things we have learned from them, and things that I absolutely disagree with. I'm sure they feel the same about us. We all have found ways to be successful without simply molding our businesses into carbon copies of each other.

Which is what I feel many should do. Learn from, definitely. Imitate, no. Create your own brand and buzz. it takes time but it is well worth it.:)
 
I believe that it is/was too big a project to accomplish in a short time frame. It is a huge challenge for the small group of USASF employees to get rules and scoresheets out in time, much less create/maintain database, distribute cards, set up infrastructure, etc.

That is a guess on my part.
I am not trying to be confrontational by asking these questions. I really do want to understand because I think USASF needs to get over this type of hurdle to move ahead. Even if it takes longer to implement, isn't it better to implement it slowly within a plan they can staff to than to kill the idea after all of that research time and effort spent? And then to start over from scratch - or to not implement the change at all? Why not use the data you have gathered, break the effort down into manageable components and tackle them one at a time?

:( I know you can't answer for them. I'm just bewildered by the logic behind these types of decisions. And I think they themselves throw up a huge barrier to progress both in changing the rules and in gaining USASF the respect and recognition they need to become a serious force.
 
I think one of the reasons everyone who does not go to CEA has for understanding crossovers is that (talking to mstealtoyou ) culturally is is EXTREMELY different than how we (and I assume most other programs) approach it. At the same time I think most CEA people have a hard time understanding why everyone views it so different than they do. It really is a cultural divide. Crossovers seem to be the pro choice/life discussion of the board as of late. Nothing I have seen or heard of (whether true or not) is illegal in the rules. If it is not illegal then I don't feel like you can get mad at anyone doing any actions within the rules that are legal. There is a new rules cycle up and if people in general feel that passionate please feel free to make suggestions on a general crossover rule and sponsor them.

Haven't we already voted on crossovers last rules cycle. Didn't it get voted down?
 
Why can't a small gym and large gym deliberately choose to align to the benefit of both without a legal or financial merger? Wouldn't it be possible for them to work together for the best interest of their customers and each other?

I've seen it happen...where a larger gym sent lower level athletes whose families couldn't afford the higher tuition and travel costs to a smaller gym where they could benefit from the lower cost and one-on-one attention. And in turn that same small gym sent back some Level 5 athletes that had acquired the skills that warranted a chance at being competitive at the higher levels, giving them a better chance at achieving their dream and at the same time helping the larger gym establish their reputation. Which then helps them attract other Level 5 talent and improve their financial success. It isn't impossible to achieve.

It would take me being completely on board with the morals and focus of the larger gym. If I refer anyone anywhere I understand that my reputation is on the line for referring that person. What if the larger gyms don't allign with your philosophies or morals? Why refer them? Isn't that why, as a small gym owner, I opened your own business in the first place?
 
There are definitely very different ways to run a gym and there is no single "right" way. For example, comparing us, Spirit, Stingrays, Top Gun, CEA, etc. would often reveal very stark differences in focus and philosophy. There are things I greatly respect about each of those programs, things we have learned from them, and things that I absolutely disagree with. I'm sure they feel the same about us. We all have found ways to be successful without simply molding our businesses into carbon copies of each other.
Seeing those comparisons would be quite interesting and add in Cali and twisters. Not necessarily a how to guide, but a comparison of how some of the best made it happen and how they grew to top and created their identities. I and I'm sure plenty of others would buy that book
 
I have seen the exact example StarshipTrooper alluded to. Those younger lower level athlete whose parents felt rather than stay in the small gym and grow, then move once they were at a skill level that the small gym did not have (or was not in their opinion strong enough) - that it was better to move and get in the large gym system quicker. This way the coaches knew them and they were more likely to get a better position on future teams than just being a newbie walking in the door - even with a reccomendation. No fault of the small gym that lost them or the large gym that got them. Pure personal decision. But when that one athlete turns to 5 - 10 or more because they all have friends they want to make the move with them and cheer with them at the new gym, now the viability of the small gym as a business starts to suffer.
This. If all things are equal, why not just start at the bigger gym who has not only the resources, but a better chance to grow through the system with better chances at getting on that high-ranking team..
 
This. If all things are equal, why not just start at the bigger gym who has not only the resources, but a better chance to grow through the system with better chances at getting on that high-ranking team..
I think the answer to this may differ from person to person, program to program. For us I believe the coaching Jac received at the smaller gyms was the whole package, not just skills. There was more attention to how she was developing as an individual, a person, a good student and citizen. The larger gym took those skills and expanded on them, and continued the beliefs we valued, but the focus on her as an individual was lost in the masses.
 
joytomylifex said:
At the end of the day before awards my junior 3 team turns to me and says "Coach Tamara, we want to go to worlds!" I say "Worlds is only for level 5 teams, not just something you just go to for fun. You have to earn your spot to go." "Yeah, we are going to work on it, because we really want to go now..."

This is a quote from what appeared to me to be an excellent young coach in a program that looked a lot like CEA when we arrived. I think it says a lot about the athletes and this sport. I think your business plan needs to ultimately meet their needs.
 
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