2017-18 Usasf Cheer Rules & Age Grid

[DonePaying4Cheer]

I respectfully disagree. My child is youth age (she's aging out this year) and has been on youth teams for the last 3 seasons. There are definitely 6-8 year olds that can hang with high level youth teams and I can assure you the kids get along fine. Also realistically the younger kids are typically the flyers - in most cases an 11 yo lifting a 7yo works better than a 10yo (of course that there are always exceptions-this has just been my experience).

I'm concerned about their progression. I have seen the most crazy side heel stretches, bent knees, and uneven stretches on Worlds teams this season. Nevermind the tumbling. At what point does the 6 year old take the time to fly on a less stressful team, and learn decent flying techniques? Level 5 flyers should be able to stand with the backspot holding the ankle in a heel stretch. This year, I'm seeing 12 year olds who are struggling, needing to be held by knees and thighs. When you compare their technique to a Gabbie D. or Maddie G. caliber flyer, you can see that there is something to be said for flyer maturity.

My other question is, do we really need level 5 flyers to be tinier-er? Why not teach bases proper technique using bigger girls? Why not teach the bigger youth 5 flyers to pull up, and be tight & light, b/c the girls who are basing them don't outweigh them by 40lbs?

Again, when do these kids get to dream about it? When do they get to watch the "big kids" be amazing, work really hard on their technique, dreaming of being like them someday? When do the big kids get to mentor the little kid on a lower level team, and watch them develop? Cheer has become an express train. From potty training, to youth, to Worlds. With no time to savor the journey in between. What life lessons are they teaching these kids, now? Idk, sometimes, just like in real life, the WAIT is worth it.

No hate. Soapbox gone. :banghead:

 

[cheer25mom]

I'm concerned about their progression. I have seen the most crazy side heel stretches, bent knees, and uneven stretches on Worlds teams this season. Nevermind the tumbling. At what point does the 6 year old take the time to fly on a less stressful team, and learn decent flying techniques? Level 5 flyers should be able to stand with the backspot holding the ankle in a heel stretch. This year, I'm seeing 12 year olds who are struggling, needing to be held by knees and thighs.

My other question is, do we really need level 5 flyers to be tinier-er? Why not teach bases proper technique using bigger girls? Why not teach the bigger youth flyers to pull up, and be tight & light? Again, when do these kids get to dream about it? When do they get to watch the "big kids" be amazing, work really hard on their technique, dreaming of being like them someday? When do the big kids get to mentor the little kid on a lower level team, and watch them develop? Cheer has become an express train. From potty training, to youth, to Worlds. With no time to savor the journey in between. What are they teaching these kids, now? Idk, sometimes, just like in real life, the WAIT is worth it.

No hate. Soapbox gone. :banghead:

I think there needs to be a balance somewhere for sure. I don't think the age floors are effective at doing it. I really feel like a level cap by age would be a better system. If kids cannot compete level 5 at 8, and we aren't putting them on worlds teams at 12 then there is lees pressure to get those skills at all costs, and it eliminates micro flyers on upper level teams. I would honestly like to see a level cap at level 3 until your age is at double digits, and teams of 11-14 year olds competing at a separate level 5 event end of season event under the restricted rule set, with worlds teams being 15 and up.

 

[catlady]

The research for back bends was already done by an established governing body... Gymnastics.

I'm not sure why it matters who did the research or paid for it. The USASF altered their age grid because of that research. I would hope, and I'm sure you would too, that as research comes out from gymnastics, the APA, the AOA, or any other organization, the USASF would reflect it in their safety and age guidelines.

 

[Charolais]

I think there needs to be a balance somewhere for sure. I don't think the age floors are effective at doing it. I really feel like a level cap by age would be a better system. If kids cannot compete level 5 at 8, and we aren't putting them on worlds teams at 12 then there is lees pressure to get those skills at all costs, and it eliminates micro flyers on upper level teams. I would honestly like to see a level cap at level 3 until your age is at double digits, and teams of 11-14 year olds competing at a separate level 5 event end of season event under the restricted rule set, with worlds teams being 15 and up.

Totally agree. Just wish parents would take the bull by the horns and slow down the progression without a governing body like USASF imposing age floors and/or ceilings.

 

[coachrah]

I'm not sure why it matters who did the research or paid for it. The USASF altered their age grid because of that research. I would hope, and I'm sure you would too, that as research comes out from gymnastics, the APA, the AOA, or any other organization, the USASF would reflect it in their safety and age guidelines.

I agree with you and simply stating that what matters is that the research already established risk management for gymnastic skills and age appropriate best practices.

 

[Lablover]

I'm concerned about their progression. I have seen the most crazy side heel stretches, bent knees, and uneven stretches on Worlds teams this season. Nevermind the tumbling. At what point does the 6 year old take the time to fly on a less stressful team, and learn decent flying techniques? Level 5 flyers should be able to stand with the backspot holding the ankle in a heel stretch. This year, I'm seeing 12 year olds who are struggling, needing to be held by knees and thighs. When you compare their technique to a Gabbie D. or Maddie G. caliber flyer, you can see that there is something to be said for flyer maturity.

My other question is, do we really need level 5 flyers to be tinier-er? Why not teach bases proper technique using bigger girls? Why not teach the bigger youth 5 flyers to pull up, and be tight & light, b/c the girls who are basing them don't outweigh them by 40lbs?

Again, when do these kids get to dream about it? When do they get to watch the "big kids" be amazing, work really hard on their technique, dreaming of being like them someday? When do the big kids get to mentor the little kid on a lower level team, and watch them develop? Cheer has become an express train. From potty training, to youth, to Worlds. With no time to savor the journey in between. What life lessons are they teaching these kids, now? Idk, sometimes, just like in real life, the WAIT is worth it.

No hate. Soapbox gone. :banghead:

I totally get where you're coming from and agree with a lot of it.

 

[AndyT_T]

USAG says you can't have kids doing back walkovers before age 5, and everyone is basically okay with that, but there are youth level 4 and 5 teams and no one questions it? Do they get all their tumbling in a year, or are they being started tumbling before their bodies are developmentally ready.

Is getting your kid on twinkles really worth the long term health of their joints?

 

[Cheeranswers]

USAG says you can't have kids doing back walkovers before age 5, and everyone is basically okay with that, but there are youth level 4 and 5 teams and no one questions it? Do they get all their tumbling in a year, or are they being started tumbling before their bodies are developmentally ready.

Is getting your kid on twinkles really worth the long term health of their joints?

isn't youth age 7-11? even if they didn't start before 5 2 years is plenty of time to get a back walkover

 

[luv2cheer92]

isn't youth age 7-11? even if they didn't start before 5 2 years is plenty of time to get a back walkover

He said level 4/5 though. So that would be 2 years to go from nothing/back walkover to layout/full. Not impossible, and not a large percentage of Youth 4/5 teams are 7 year olds to begin with.

 

[Cheeranswers]

He said level 4/5 though. So that would be 2 years to go from nothing/back walkover to layout/full. Not impossible, and not a large percentage of Youth 4/5 teams are 7 year olds to begin with.

missed that part, thanks!

That's also assuming that the kids went through the natural progression also. I know many people that can do fulls and doubles, but not a back walkover

 

[EMMbaleena]

Over the weekend, the gym I coach at attended a CDE competition. Correct me if I am wrong, but the new rules go into effect next season?...
I already checked the CDE website and it states 'All Star, All Star Prep, Dance and Recreation follow the rules put forth by USASF', so I should be in the clear here...

I am questioning because first, we experienced xsmall and small division splits vice the usual A/B splits as per the current rules. I didn't find that to be a huge deal since both splits are dictated by size...
HOWEVER - we have a Tiny prep level 1 team which currently consists of some 3 and 4 year old kids. When our Tinys went to perform, we were informed that we were unable to sit directly in front of the mat and were sent a good 25-30 feet back. We were told that only exhibition teams could have their coaches sit that close to the mat. Since this was a larger competition, there was stage lighting, and the kids were unable to see us since we were back in the dark compared to them. Unfortunately, this was their first competition of the season, and we had a few very nervous kids...and we had told them to just find us and perform for us, just like they would at the gym

I would understand this if it were next season and the age for Tiny participants increases to 5. Then the intention of 'Tiny' vs. Pre-Team Exhibition Tiny becomes even more distinct...

We've been to multiple CDE competitions and this has never been an issue, but we will definitely be preparing for changes like this in the future and I wanted to make sure other coaches out there are aware in case they run into this at CDE events or others!

 

[dat.jpp]

Some big teams might (not saying for sure) will abuse that xsmall division with having like 4 standing fulls and 6 doubles.

JMO

 

[Hi-Phlyer21]

Some big teams might (not saying for sure) will abuse that xsmall division with having like 4 standing fulls and 6 doubles.

JMO

But that's another reason that it isn't going to be a worlds division. To be honest, though, for teams of that size I would absolutely put my strongest athletes on that team. Build a strong tumbling team before taking weaker tumblers for the sake of stunts in my opinion. Even then, running tumbling doesn't matter all that much; it's about the standing.
It's not abusing the size limitations it's it's about structure and ratios t make a team successful competitively.

It's easier to fluff and hide areas a team falls short with choreo on larger teams. No so much the smaller the numbers.

 

[Sparkle Mom]

He said level 4/5 though. So that would be 2 years to go from nothing/back walkover to layout/full. Not impossible, and not a large percentage of Youth 4/5 teams are 7 year olds to begin with.

I don't think that a large percentage of youth 4/5 are 7 years old. I think sometimes the size can be deceiving. Some of the 10 year olds that fly on youth 5 are the size of the average 7 year old. My CP started at age 5 had a bwo and fwo that year by turning 6, bhs at age 6, tuck at age 7, layout/specialty age 8 and full now at age 9. Is that really that fast of a progression? I have seen others on the y5 go from age 8/9 with a bhs and by the next year have a full and aging out of youth with a double and standing full. It is a small number of athletes but there are actually quite a few I know that gained skills that quickly.

 

[AndyT_T]

Some big teams might (not saying for sure) will abuse that xsmall division with having like 4 standing fulls and 6 doubles.

JMO

I would love the Small division to become a division where to win you needed squad everything, standing fulls, doubles, etc. I would love for a D1 and D2 extra small at worlds so franchise gyms could make XS the division where the craziest skills are being thrown. Probably only in my dreams though.