All-Star Summit Reveals

[cheermomforever]

There will always be judging due to personal choice and what judges miss or see. We have all gotten wrongly judged and maybe gotten higher than we should have. There is no across the board...... We will never know if every higher placed team is rewatched and judged fairly for a summit bid. That's just the life of all-star cheer.


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[Cheer4U2]

Personally "Judges Choice" is shady, and with an industry that makes millions of dollars off the backs of us parents, the process should be more transparent. I am seriously questioning the ethics in some of the process. Scores should always be posted for everyone to see after day one and then after awards the following day. This monopoly called All-Star Cheer lacks transparency. What's the big secret it's a competitive sport that uses a score! Why are only level 5 scores talked so much about? It's subjective enough, but when it comes to Bids if the Grand Champs of that level already have a bid, then the next highest scoring team in that level should get it. Of course, I have no idea what the next highest score was for that division; but I heard the bid went to a team that scored lower than us in that same division, different sub-group. BTW the team that got the bid was originally in the same sub-group but got moved last minute. Are the kids crushed, yup they are! They feel they earned that bid because they scored higher, wouldn't you? #shady #cgnd #lastyearinallstar

Yeah I think Summit bids should be given out based on scores my team went to a competition a couple weekends ago we had the 5th highest score out all the D2 teams and one of the teams above us already had a bid. We also won our division but when it came down to giving out the summit bids not one but two teams who scored lower than us and did not win their division got Summit bids. I just don't understand the process behind it!

 

[FamousMatty]

Giving Summit bids by score alone is borderline impossible and often times not as fair as it may seem. Most EP's consider score, depth of division, placement in division, and actual performance when choosing. Had it been based off score alone I'm almost positive that the level 2 Bid would have gone to Star Athletics Senior 2. They finished a very close second behind my Senior 2 who was level 2 grand and high point (we already have a bid), and like many teams would have been very deserving of the bid as well. So I would assume they gave preference to division winners first and then compared the actual performances with a fresh pair of eyes before making the announcement on Monday night. When you have literally hundreds of teams going for the same 5 bids across two very differently scoring arenas, you have to consider more than just score. I do agree there could be more transparency from the EP. Maybe an explanation of their decision for bid recipients. But, to expect a cut and dry score based bid dispersal like with worlds isn't realistic.

 

[NJ Coach]

Giving Summit bids by score alone is borderline impossible and often times not as fair as it may seem. Most EP's consider score, depth of division, placement in division, and actual performance when choosing. Had it been based off score alone I'm almost positive that the level 2 Bid would have gone to Star Athletics Senior 2. They finished a very close second behind my Senior 2 who was level 2 grand and high point (we already have a bid), and like many teams would have been very deserving of the bid as well. So I would assume they gave preference to division winners first and then compared the actual performances with a fresh pair of eyes before making the announcement on Monday night. When you have literally hundreds of teams going for the same 5 bids across two very differently scoring arenas, you have to consider more than just score. I do agree there could be more transparency from the EP. Maybe an explanation of their decision for bid recipients. But, to expect a cut and dry score based bid dispersal like with worlds isn't realistic.

Except a non division winner got a bid last night, when there were plenty of division winners in levels 1-5 non worlds without.

 

[coach12]

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ndint

Except a non division winner got a bid last night, when there were plenty of division winners in levels 1-5 non worlds without.

thats the part I couldn't understand

 

[FamousMatty]

Except a non division winner got a bid last night, when there were plenty of division winners in levels 1-5 non worlds without.

Good call. I was only really following the level 2 bids/scores admittedly. Well that is confusing a bit more then. I don't think straight score is the answe, but I also don't know what the right answer is.

 

[luv2cheer92]

Now it's hard to determine without a bid declaration, but one at-large bid was given to each level, so this could have helped determine which teams got them. The team that won that division already has a paid bid. Perhaps that team was one of the best teams at that level that didn't already have a bid. Not claiming to agree/disagree, just trying to think it out haha.

 

[twincheermom]

I think no matter how you look at things, scoring and awarding of bids will never be perfect for everyone and the reason is because we have human beings judging. Our sport is so unlike other sports where points are scored. In our case, points are awarded by judges who although are using a rubric with ranges, still have some ability to decide on a score, ie is a team at the high end of a range or at the low end of a range.

Speaking as a judge (high school, Pop Warner, and AYC----not all-star, but I believe the same things apply), I can tell you that sometimes at the beginning of a day, I start off a little too high or a little too low--not a lot--maybe .1 , but enough that if I adjust myself immediately, I am going to effect the outcome in that division. So for that group of teams, I stay either too high or too low to keep everything in line for that division. Some of you might ask, "But how can this happen if you are using a rubric? Aren't things supposed to be worth a certain amount?" Yes, to an extent, but you still have the discretion to decide what the score is in the end. For example, to be in the high range of stunts, you need 4 different level appropriate skills performed by most of team, 2 of which are Elite level appropriate. You can then score a 4.5-5.0. The judge then decides where in that range to put a team. So for me if I think I as a little too high or a little too low in one division, I reset a little bit in the next division. For this reason, I think it's somewhat important to review before awarding bids.

I agree that this industry needs to be SO much more transparent. Why are the scores always a secret? To me, it's so that the EPs can do whatever they want with bids. I could be completely wrong, but that's what it looks like.

As far as "rules" for awarding bids, I'm not sure I agree with some of the ways that bids are being awarded currently. My girls were on a J2 two years ago. We can in second over and over again. They got a paid bid at Athletic. They didn't win their division, but they had the 2nd highest score of the entire competition. Now, they probably wouldn't get a bid there. A month later, they came in 2nd again in their division at Spirit Fest. They were also 2nd overall of all teams in all divisions again. I don't think they would get a bid there anymore either. They went on to win the Summit, so they did belong there.

Last year, we saw teams awarded bids because they won their division and every other division winner in that level already had bids. It didn't necessarily mean that they had a higher score than many other teams that happened to have a lot of strong teams in their level; it was just that quite a few teams in that level already had bids.

With all this rambling, I'm not sure I have any sort of solution whatsoever. And I'm not sure if there's a solution that will work for everyone, but I'd love for the powers that be try to find one. My .02

 

[NJ Coach]

Now it's hard to determine without a bid declaration, but one at-large bid was given to each level, so this could have helped determine which teams got them. The team that won that division already has a paid bid. Perhaps that team was one of the best teams at that level that didn't already have a bid. Not claiming to agree/disagree, just trying to think it out haha.

Part of the problem is 2 levels were split between the 2 halls. The one hall was averaging 2 points higher than the Worlds hall. With the exception of the level 4 and 5 bid winners (both levels were strictly in the worlds hall) all other bids came from the higher scoring arena. It was one of the biggest worries all coaches I talked to had all weekend long.

 

[Sparkle Mom]

I don't think there can be a standard for bids until there is a standard for scoring. With comparative scoresheets and subjective interpretation of even things like difficulty, you can't just use scores to determine bids. Now if a 2nd place team had gotten a bid over a 1st place team in the exact same division, now that I wouldn't agree with. But I think reviewing the routines to determine who should get the bids instead of going solely by score is the best way to do it right now.

My thoughts exactly! I do hope that the extra time to review bids will help give bids to the best team. It is subjective and comparing our own gym to others is always difficult. It doesn't seem that the subjective nature is fading at all so in the meantime we may all think our athletes deserve or earned the bid.

 

[Perkyninjamomma]

It looks like cheersport is having their worlds bid reveal on Monday too.


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[luv2cheer92]

It looks like cheersport is having their worlds bid reveal on Monday too.


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Yea, they did that last year as well. There are a couple worlds bid comps that do that.

 

[Nikki Moore]

Question about bids - I just saw that a team that I would say is D1 is competing in D2 at CheerSport. Luckily they are in a different division than us but they already have a WC bid to D1 Summit.
Once they have a WC for D1, can they get a D2 Summit bid if it's higher?
(And I could have sworn that Rockstar Cheer should have been D1 - they were not originally in the D2 divisions..)

 

[luv2cheer92]

Question about bids - I just saw that a team that I would say is D1 is competing in D2 at CheerSport. Luckily they are in a different division than us but they already have a WC bid to D1 Summit.
Once they have a WC for D1, can they get a D2 Summit bid if it's higher?
(And I could have sworn that Rockstar Cheer should have been D1 - they were not originally in the D2 divisions..)

I was talking about this in another thread, some of the Rockstar location have been competing D2 at several comps and have been in D2 since the Cheersport schedule was first released.

 

[Nikki Moore]

I was talking about this in another thread, some of the Rockstar location have been competing D2 at several comps and have been in D2 since the Cheersport schedule was first released.

When I had checked the different teams in our D2 divisions (A and B), they weren't on it when the schedule was first released - I could have sworn I saw them up with the regular D1 teams. I guess if they still qualify for D2 it's fine, but just interesting.. Right now their gym has about 6 WC bids to D1 Summit..and nothing for D2..