High School Tryouts 2018-2019 Season

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Yeah this is the school. I think it is option B from my reading of it which is even worse than option A.
I agree. As an Athlete I could deal with A but I would walk if my school went with B. And I have no idea why anyone thinks this is a good idea. Really not smart to put a target like that on your kids back...
Hypothetically, if I were still planning to coach and this was rolled out for me next year:

Situation A - Not ideal. Unfair, but I would not die.
Situation B - I may sign my resignation AT the board meeting because that is crazy.

Sidenote: I wonder if people who take to news/legal wrangling to get kids on teams realize what they set their kids up for? Ex: Becky's mom makes big stink about her kid making Varsity. A situation like this ensues. Becky is placed there by school board. Becky is now THAT kid.
A similar thing happened here with a kid from my first few years coaching. She was on Varsity my first year, but made JV my second year because her skill level never increased while other girls' did. Her mom went to the AD, principal, and district to try and get the change but they all looked at her like she was crazy. She transferred to a different school in the district and made Varsity there. She forever had a stigma over her head because of it, which was a bummer because she was a really sweet kid, it was just her mom that was psycho.

I totally get that parents want to protect their kids, but what are they teaching them by doing this? Personally I wouldn't want to be on a team just because my mommy and daddy put up a fuss, I'd want to be there because of my skills.
The "everyone makes the team" mentality is frustrating. I had a HUGE with this issue as a first year coach this year. We had a mom who didn't agree with our decision spend weeks trying to get someone, anyone, to reverse it and put her daughter on the squad. She went all the way to the superintendent of schools. It wasn't "fair" to only cut a few, JV is a development program, ect. It got very ugly, but we stood our ground. No one would override us, so she took her kid to another school. She had made her THAT kid at our school.

We've had zero issues with this since I started at my current school and changed tryouts. Folks, if you are making tryouts some kind of big secret deal, you're INVITING tryout drama. By "big secret deal," I mean: either one-by-one or in small groups you march them through the gym like cattle on the auction block and judge their material with no one else in the gym. The doors are closed, there's paper over the windows, and then at the end of the day you post Schindler's list on the door for them to all walk up to and either celebrate or do the walk of shame in front of their peers.

Have about 5 open gyms leading up to your tryout week so that you know most of their names, and they don't walk around feeling like a number.

Have tryouts like 3-4 big practices where they work on material that's SUPER easy. You're not trying to win a competition with your tryout material, you need to know if they're teachable, and if they have the ability to do clean motions.

DO NOT allow your graduating seniors to play ANY role in the tryout process whatsoever. This invites the idea (real or imagined) that they are influencing the results based on who they "liked" the year before.

Talk to the kids who are going to get cut over the course of the week and tell them what they are going to have to do if they want to have a chance. Explain to them that their chances are slim.

Judge different aspects of the tryout skills every day, and let them all watch each other go. The ones who aren't going to make the team will SEE that they aren't as skilled as the ones that do.

Get rid of the outside judges and have the character to make a decision and stand behind it. Two types of coaches use outside judges: Those who's districts mandate that they do so, and those who are too weak-minded to stand behind their own decisions.

On the last day, pull any kid who is on the line aside privately and give them the news, good or bad, face-to-face. The ones who you give good news to will get to "have their moment." the ones who get the bad news, need to have an assistant coach or other adult school employee love on them a bit while they have their meltdown privately and call their parents to come pick them up. Give them the option of finishing the day (they never do) or leaving quietly so as not to be noticed.

Signed

"Coach who hasn't had so much as a phone call from a complaining parent in four years"
 
We've had zero issues with this since I started at my current school and changed tryouts. Folks, if you are making tryouts some kind of big secret deal, you're INVITING tryout drama. By "big secret deal," I mean: either one-by-one or in small groups you march them through the gym like cattle on the auction block and judge their material with no one else in the gym. The doors are closed, there's paper over the windows, and then at the end of the day you post Schindler's list on the door for them to all walk up to and either celebrate or do the walk of shame in front of their peers.

Have about 5 open gyms leading up to your tryout week so that you know most of their names, and they don't walk around feeling like a number.

Have tryouts like 3-4 big practices where they work on material that's SUPER easy. You're not trying to win a competition with your tryout material, you need to know if they're teachable, and if they have the ability to do clean motions.

DO NOT allow your graduating seniors to play ANY role in the tryout process whatsoever. This invites the idea (real or imagined) that they are influencing the results based on who they "liked" the year before.

Talk to the kids who are going to get cut over the course of the week and tell them what they are going to have to do if they want to have a chance. Explain to them that their chances are slim.

Judge different aspects of the tryout skills every day, and let them all watch each other go. The ones who aren't going to make the team will SEE that they aren't as skilled as the ones that do.

Get rid of the outside judges and have the character to make a decision and stand behind it. Two types of coaches use outside judges: Those who's districts mandate that they do so, and those who are too weak-minded to stand behind their own decisions.

On the last day, pull any kid who is on the line aside privately and give them the news, good or bad, face-to-face. The ones who you give good news to will get to "have their moment." the ones who get the bad news, need to have an assistant coach or other adult school employee love on them a bit while they have their meltdown privately and call their parents to come pick them up. Give them the option of finishing the day (they never do) or leaving quietly so as not to be noticed.

Signed

"Coach who hasn't had so much as a phone call from a complaining parent in four years"

You are lucky no one has complained. A local private school did tryouts like this and didn’t have problems for years, but after parents of girls who didn’t make it last year threatened to sue, they were forced to place them on a team. Their attorneys told them they would lose the suit BECAUSE they didn’t have objective, outside judges. They did pretty much exactly what you are describing, but Susie’s mom just couldn’t believe her little darling had not been targeted, and she got other parents on board.
This is why our public district requires outside judges who have no relationship with anyone trying out. We had to fight a similar situation this year and came out on top BECAUSE we had the scores to back our decision.


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A similar thing happened here with a kid from my first few years coaching. She was on Varsity my first year, but made JV my second year because her skill level never increased while other girls' did. Her mom went to the AD, principal, and district to try and get the change but they all looked at her like she was crazy. She transferred to a different school in the district and made Varsity there. She forever had a stigma over her head because of it, which was a bummer because she was a really sweet kid, it was just her mom that was psycho.

I totally get that parents want to protect their kids, but what are they teaching them by doing this? Personally I wouldn't want to be on a team just because my mommy and daddy put up a fuss, I'd want to be there because of my skills.
Exactly. I think the kid in this situation is pretty upset. Her mom has painted a target on her back. Everyone in their year knows what happened and it will follow her, even going to a different school.
 
You are lucky no one has complained. A local private school did tryouts like this and didn’t have problems for years, but after parents of girls who didn’t make it last year threatened to sue, they were forced to place them on a team. Their attorneys told them they would lose the suit BECAUSE they didn’t have objective, outside judges. They did pretty much exactly what you are describing, but Susie’s mom just couldn’t believe her little darling had not been targeted, and she got other parents on board.
This is why our public district requires outside judges who have no relationship with anyone trying out. We had to fight a similar situation this year and came out on top BECAUSE we had the scores to back our decision.


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I’m calling BS.

That would be tantamount to suggesting there’s actual case law that would make it a requirement for cheer teams to use outside judges.

By that logic, of the hundreds of thousands of of teenagers who try out to participate in high school activities every year, every school system in the country would be putting themselves at risk of litigation for every short kid who doesn’t make the basketball team, every scrawny kid who doesn’t make the football team, every thespian who doesn’t get the starring role in the school play, etc.

The attorneys probably told the school system that there was a chance they would lose for some other reason and suggested outside judges because the coach did something sketchy.

I’m envisioning a coach who cut a kid because of her attitude not because of her skill set. That’s asking for trouble. You’re better off to put them on the team and try to pull them in to your team culture. Of course that only works if you have an intentionally created team culture. Most cheer teams have a culture created by chance because the coaches have no idea how to do it intentionally, and the seniors end up creating it and recreating it every year.
 
I’m calling BS.

That would be tantamount to suggesting there’s actual case law that would make it a requirement for cheer teams to use outside judges.

By that logic, of the hundreds of thousands of of teenagers who try out to participate in high school activities every year, every school system in the country would be putting themselves at risk of litigation for every short kid who doesn’t make the basketball team, every scrawny kid who doesn’t make the football team, every thespian who doesn’t get the starring role in the school play, etc.

The attorneys probably told the school system that there was a chance they would lose for some other reason and suggested outside judges because the coach did something sketchy.

I’m envisioning a coach who cut a kid because of her attitude not because of her skill set. That’s asking for trouble. You’re better off to put them on the team and try to pull them in to your team culture. Of course that only works if you have an intentionally created team culture. Most cheer teams have a culture created by chance because the coaches have no idea how to do it intentionally, and the seniors end up creating it and recreating it every year.

No BS. I assure you. Courts tend to side with parents against schools, and without an objective measure, that swings even further. The attorney said they were pretty much assured to lose. In most cases with other sports it never gets to that point because they can just put them on the JV team and never play them. You cannot do that with cheerleaders. They are all “on” all the time.

Nothing sketchy. The process just didn’t work to prevent issues in this case. No process is perfect and no coach is perfect or immune to crazy parents. It’s kind of insulting to insinuate that anyone who has parents cause problems must not be doing it like you and is therefore wrong or unethical.


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No BS. I assure you. Courts tend to side with parents against schools, and without an objective measure, that swings even further. The attorney said they were pretty much assured to lose. In most cases with other sports it never gets to that point because they can just put them on the JV team and never play them. You cannot do that with cheerleaders. They are all “on” all the time.

Nothing sketchy. The process just didn’t work to prevent issues in this case. No process is perfect and no coach is perfect or immune to crazy parents. It’s kind of insulting to insinuate that anyone who has parents cause problems must not be doing it like you and is therefore wrong or unethical.


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Insulting or not, sometimes the truth hurts.

20+ years of watching multiple people having the same problems over and over and over and over and over again. The vast majority, big picture I’d say 80+%, of cheer coaches are parents who know little about cheer and even less about coaching. In Kentucky and some of the more cheer-oriented states, I’d say at best the number is 50%. You don’t see that level of incompetence at the Varsity level in any real sport. We are so far behind that a lot of schools still use the word “sponsor” for this position.

To suggest that even a simple majority of cheer coaches are competent is a jaded point of view. They’re simply not.
 
Insulting or not, sometimes the truth hurts.

20+ years of watching multiple people having the same problems over and over and over and over and over again. The vast majority, big picture I’d say 80+%, of cheer coaches are parents who know little about cheer and even less about coaching. In Kentucky and some of the more cheer-oriented states, I’d say at best the number is 50%. You don’t see that level of incompetence at the Varsity level in any real sport. We are so far behind that a lot of schools still use the word “sponsor” for this position.

To suggest that even a simple majority of cheer coaches are competent is a jaded point of view. They’re simply not.

To suggest if everyone just did it like you there would never be a problem is also unrealistic. You honestly think you are immune to problem parents because you are that perfect? Good luck with that. I don’t think any coaching practice can do that.

You are right that a lot of parents and coaches know nothing about cheer. Parents who know nothing tend to think that their little Susie is amazing, even if they aren’t. Sometimes nothing we can do as coaches convinces them otherwise, even if the coach is competent, which this coach I am talking about definitely is. The reality is that even good coaches have problems with parents from time to time. It’s the reality of the situation.


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I started at my current school and changed tryouts. Folks, if you are making tryouts some kind of big secret deal, you're INVITING tryout drama. By "big secret deal," I mean: either one-by-one or in small groups you march them through the gym like cattle on the auction block and judge their material with no one else in the gym. The doors are closed, there's paper over the windows, and then at the end of the day you post Schindler's list on the door for them to all walk up to and either celebrate or do the walk of shame in front of their peers.

One of the best things I ever did was nix outside judging for stations/more open gyms/coaches doing the evaluating. The more open you are with EVERYONE (kids and parents) about what it is you are looking for in an athlete, the less likely they are to contest results. Becky's mom can't argue with an evaluation week rubric that you SHOWED her. Becky can't argue with the results because she SAW the rotation group in front of her NAIL the cheer and can evaluate her performance comparatively.

Disclaimer. I have not been as fortunate as I HAVE had some complaints. Some rumblings of "going to the board" but it never goes far because I think the athlete KNOWS the results were fair (because they saw their competition) and tells the parent not to take it further. That, and I think people are diffused by me actually COMMUNICATING WITH THEM about the result rather than acting like it was super secret. Ex: A mom emailed me very mad once about a result. I sent her back a "very sorry but here is what I noticed during tryout week and this is how she can come back stronger."
 
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My nieces try out was a mix of daily evaluations and then today outside judges.

For stunting and tumbling they were given a scale and every girl knew what they had (or didn’t have to max out)

Today was a fitness test by the strength and conditioning coach and outside judges scored them on jumps, Cheer and dance.

My niece will never know how the judges scored her but she does know she got a 28/30 on the stunt/tumble evaluation (3rd highest score ) and the second highest fitness test score. Basically she could still not make it based on the judges.

Fortunately they didn’t do daily cuts or pull girls aside and tell them not to come back


Personally I like how they do try outs. The stunting and tumbling....it is what it is. But having judges for Cheer and dance may help girls that struggle in the other areas


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One of the best things I ever did was nix outside judging for stations/more open gyms/coaches doing the evaluating. The more open you are with EVERYONE (kids and parents) about what it is you are looking for in an athlete, the less likely they are to contest results. Becky's mom can't argue with an evaluation week rubric that you SHOWED her. Becky can't argue with the results because she SAW the rotation group in front of her NAIL the cheer and can evaluate her performance comparatively.

Disclaimer. I have not been as fortunate as I HAVE had some complaints. Some rumblings of "going to the board" but it never goes far because I think the athlete KNOWS the results were fair (because they saw their competition) and tells the parent not to take it further. That, and I think people are diffused by me actually COMMUNICATING WITH THEM about the result rather than acting like it was super secret. Ex: A mom emailed me very mad once about a result. I sent her back a "very sorry but here is what I noticed during tryout week and this is how she can come back stronger."

BOOM!!!

Most cheer coaches are too scared to hurt someone’s feelings to be proactive. Sounds like you’re doing great work.
 
BOOM!!!

Most cheer coaches are too scared to hurt someone’s feelings to be proactive. Sounds like you’re doing great work.

*was doing.

Family is causing me to pass the torch this year, it appears. (Short version: small person has been having some weird sleep/ear/throat issues that we need to take time to figure out.) That's life!
 
We've had zero issues with this since I started at my current school and changed tryouts. Folks, if you are making tryouts some kind of big secret deal, you're INVITING tryout drama. By "big secret deal," I mean: either one-by-one or in small groups you march them through the gym like cattle on the auction block and judge their material with no one else in the gym. The doors are closed, there's paper over the windows, and then at the end of the day you post Schindler's list on the door for them to all walk up to and either celebrate or do the walk of shame in front of their peers.

Have about 5 open gyms leading up to your tryout week so that you know most of their names, and they don't walk around feeling like a number.

Have tryouts like 3-4 big practices where they work on material that's SUPER easy. You're not trying to win a competition with your tryout material, you need to know if they're teachable, and if they have the ability to do clean motions.

DO NOT allow your graduating seniors to play ANY role in the tryout process whatsoever. This invites the idea (real or imagined) that they are influencing the results based on who they "liked" the year before.

Talk to the kids who are going to get cut over the course of the week and tell them what they are going to have to do if they want to have a chance. Explain to them that their chances are slim.

Judge different aspects of the tryout skills every day, and let them all watch each other go. The ones who aren't going to make the team will SEE that they aren't as skilled as the ones that do.

Get rid of the outside judges and have the character to make a decision and stand behind it. Two types of coaches use outside judges: Those who's districts mandate that they do so, and those who are too weak-minded to stand behind their own decisions.

On the last day, pull any kid who is on the line aside privately and give them the news, good or bad, face-to-face. The ones who you give good news to will get to "have their moment." the ones who get the bad news, need to have an assistant coach or other adult school employee love on them a bit while they have their meltdown privately and call their parents to come pick them up. Give them the option of finishing the day (they never do) or leaving quietly so as not to be noticed.

Signed

"Coach who hasn't had so much as a phone call from a complaining parent in four years"

That is simply stellar !!!


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Does anyone have a tryout form they use? I'm thinking like a place where they can write down skills they have on dead mat, stunting position/experience, year in school, stuff like that.

I'm interviewing for two head coaching positions and I want to try and come into both as prepared as possible.
 
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