Bid distributing

[Ignis Pater]

I have heard people discuss the way bids are given. So, being board, I've come up with some changes that might work.

1. Stop giving paid bids to International open all girl/ open coed L5 and L6. Nothing against these divisions, I actually love to watch both. All star cheer revolves around school aged kids. Don't pay for college kids, 20 somethings, and often coaches to cheer for free.

2. When awarding a paid bid to a team finishing lower than 1st; regardless of the 1st place team receiving a paid bid previously or at the current competition, the team in question must score 97% of the 1st place teams score. If the 2nd place team fails to meet the scoring requirement and there are no other teams eligible, the paid bid would be eliminated. This would allow competition companies to advertise a predetermined number of paid bids available. It would be up to the teams to earn them.

3. If a paid bid is eliminated, the corresponding number of at large bids would drop as well. Example, 1 paid bid and 3 at large.

4. The same practices would apply to at large bids. The scoring percentage would drop to 95% of the 1st place teams score.

These are just ideas, my opinions. I am a parent and my opinion does not and should not matter. Thank you all for coming and have a safe trip home.

 

[scflips]

I agree with Int teams not receiving full paid bids but I think they should be awarded partial paid. I think all bids should be awarded to the highest scoring teams at the competition, if its Int teams then the company should be allowed to split a full paid into 2 partials. If the highest scoring team already has a bid then it should go to the next highest score (regardless of division)
Some gyms "chase" bids but in order to "chase" that gym still has to pay a registration fee, so I feel they should be eligible for whatever bids the company offers.

 

[King]

While I do enjoy international to watch, I don't think it is a positive thing to award Int Open teams any type of paid bids (in the US). The club teams are where gyms are built upon and where a gyms income comes from. I would say half of all international teams (in the US) operate on volunteer time or even at a loss. I would guess the amount of Int teams actually making a gym money is slim... or even possibly none. You will have college kids on the team who can barely afford the entry fees as is.. let alone paying your gym tuition. So the competition companies are encouraging these low profit teams if we award them paid bids. As an industry they should only award to the divisions that actually GROW cheerleading and make gyms money.

So, before anyone brings up the counter point of 'they work really hard and they pay their competition fees just like anyone else' I want people to remember this is about encouraging growth in cheer. What things to do to make the industry stronger. Giving paid bids to Int teams just encourages gyms to have a money pit team... and that doesn't seem smart.

 

[Mom Jeans]

I really don't very much about the levels, but something I would like to see is that any company giving bids needs to use the Varsity Score Sheet. Another thing I don't understand is how a company decides how many bids will go to a specific division. I was at a bid giving comp with 4 teams in small sr 5. The first place team already had a bid, the second place team was given a bid and although there were at least 5 First Place teams in other divisions trying to get a bid, the 3rd place team sm sr 5 team got the bid and they couldn't have beat the other teams who had placed first in their division. They kept the 1st place teams on stage to announce the bids and a team that wasn't on stage got it. It was great to hear the screams from the team that got it, but it was heartbreaking to see the faces of those who thought it might be them. Maybe if the bids were given strictly by score and not at the judges descretion then this wouldn't happen.

 

[Deleted member 15]

I think I've made it clear that I'm against a standard score sheet, but I would say if a standard score sheet was going to be required for bid giving divisions it needs to be the Worlds score sheet.

Right now scoring across judging panels isn't consistent enough to award bids based solely on score. As judges consistently work with the scoring systems, at least Jammy and Varsity's, this will improve and become an option. Cheersport's system is a long way from having consistency across panels, therefore a long way from being able to offer bids based on score alone.

The bids are normally given at the company's discretion, not the judges' discretion.

 

[Mom Jeans]

I think I've made it clear that I'm against a standard score sheet, but I would say if a standard score sheet was going to be required for bid giving divisions it needs to be the Worlds score sheet.

Right now scoring across judging panels isn't consistent enough to award bids based solely on score. As judges consistently work with the scoring systems, at least Jammy and Varsity's, this will improve and become an option. Cheersport's system is a long way from having consistency across panels, therefore a long way from being able to offer bids based on score alone.

The bids are normally given at the company's discretion, not the judges' discretion.

oops that's what I meant to say.

 

[tumbleyoda]

I have heard people discuss the way bids are given. So, being board, I've come up with some changes that might work.

1. Stop giving paid bids to International open all girl/ open coed L5 and L6. Nothing against these divisions, I actually love to watch both. All star cheer revolves around school aged kids. Don't pay for college kids, 20 somethings, and often coaches to cheer for free.

2. When awarding a paid bid to a team finishing lower than 1st; regardless of the 1st place team receiving a paid bid previously or at the current competition, the team in question must score 97% of the 1st place teams score. If the 2nd place team fails to meet the scoring requirement and there are no other teams eligible, the paid bid would be eliminated. This would allow competition companies to advertise a predetermined number of paid bids available. It would be up to the teams to earn them.

3. If a paid bid is eliminated, the corresponding number of at large bids would drop as well. Example, 1 paid bid and 3 at large.

4. The same practices would apply to at large bids. The scoring percentage would drop to 95% of the 1st place teams score.

These are just ideas, my opinions. I am a parent and my opinion does not and should not matter. Thank you all for coming and have a safe trip home.

Doesn't each competition company apply to USASF to be able to give away bids? That the determining factor is not only the amount of teams coming to the event in the past, the quality of teams but the ability of the competition company to pay USASF for that right? Once you have invested money to be able to give a bid, wouldnt you want to make sure that you are able to actually give it instead of not giving it at all? You invest money into USASF so that you have the right to give a bid to draw more teams to your event. Then you dont give it at all? That would really be throwing money away.

From the sporting side I see your point, the business side says it wont happen.

 

[CheerKatie08]

While I do enjoy international to watch, I don't think it is a positive thing to award Int Open teams any type of paid bids (in the US). The club teams are where gyms are built upon and where a gyms income comes from. I would say half of all international teams (in the US) operate on volunteer time or even at a loss. I would guess the amount of Int teams actually making a gym money is slim... or even possibly none. You will have college kids on the team who can barely afford the entry fees as is.. let alone paying your gym tuition. So the competition companies are encouraging these low profit teams if we award them paid bids. As an industry they should only award to the divisions that actually GROW cheerleading and make gyms money.

So, before anyone brings up the counter point of 'they work really hard and they pay their competition fees just like anyone else' I want people to remember this is about encouraging growth in cheer. What things to do to make the industry stronger. Giving paid bids to Int teams just encourages gyms to have a money pit team... and that doesn't seem smart.

just because I can't really afford the gym tuition doesn't mean I don't pay it.... but this conversation can go on for days

 

[ACEDAD]

Doesn't each competition company apply to USASF to be able to give away bids? That the determining factor is not only the amount of teams coming to the event in the past, the quality of teams but the ability of the competition company to pay USASF for that right? Once you have invested money to be able to give a bid, wouldnt you want to make sure that you are able to actually give it instead of not giving it at all? You invest money into USASF so that you have the right to give a bid to draw more teams to your event. Then you dont give it at all? That would really be throwing money away.

From the sporting side I see your point, the business side says it wont happen.

Bids are based on the membership that the event producer has with USASF. You can read all the details here: http://usasf.net.ismmedia.com/ISM2//Member Documents /USASF_Eventproducer_Membership_09.pdf

The bids are REQUIRED to be given each year. A company cannot decide that they are going to give fewer bids; they are contractually obligated.

 

[tumbleyoda]

Bids are based on the membership that the event producer has with USASF. You can read all the details here: http://usasf.net.ismmedia.com/ISM2//Member Documents /USASF_Eventproducer_Membership_09.pdf

The bids are REQUIRED to be given each year. A company cannot decide that they are going to give fewer bids; they are contractually obligated.

Thanks Acedad! That is my point. If a company has to give the bid (no matter the process) then no matter how we as coaches, parents wish they didn't because we dong think the Applesauce All Stars have any place at Worlds is irrelevant. If they earn the bid based on that competition companies guidelines and they give it to them, we will just be wacthing Applesauce All Stars at Worlds. Not giving the bid because they have no chance against the big dogs of any division to win, come in top 3, top 5 or top 10 is not an option. Business decision not sporting decision.

 

[gerrymd8]

Kingston; I always enjoy your posts. However, I am not completely understanding your view about the international open teams. Our organization started with 3 teams; including an international open team. We needed to do that because we had a mix of 14/u but not enough for a senior team and 17/over, but not enough for an open team. Now we have 6 teams. Our gym is non profit. We are trying to "GROW cheerleading" but we are not about making our gyms money except for improvements to help the teams. That does not mean we would not love to have an international open team earn a bid to Worlds if we deserved it. This should not be about money. (by the way, we do not have an international open team anymore; not enough judges understand the division and we now have full senior and open teams).

 

[Deleted member 15]

not enough judges understand the division.

Do you mind expanding on this comment?

 

[gerrymd8]

Yes. The International Open division as I understand it started because the "International" teams (outside of the US) were having difficulty fielding full teams in the Senior/Open divisions (Senior 18/under age groups and Open 17/up age groups). They needed to use different ages that ranged from 14 on up to put together a team. A lot of small gyms and start up gyms have this same issue. They need to use different ages to combine and make one team to compete. The only level to compete in this division is LEVEL 5. That's it. That's all. I cannot tell you how many scoring sheets I received where a judge has written "your team would do great in a lower level division" or " ? fulls ?, need to add more". HELLO! 1.) If there was a lower level International Open division available, I would be in it! But because there is no other option for a mixed age group team, well I guess that is where I have to go....and 2.) if I had more fulls, I WOULD ADD THEM!
It was very discouraging to me to realize that a lot of judges have no idea at all that international open is ages 14 and up and only one level option in that division.

 

[King]

gerrymd8, I am trying to understand how the international division helped you grow. what exactly did it allow you to do? i am slightly confused on your explanations. once I got a clear picture I would love to answer your question.

 

[gerrymd8]

Hi Kingston! The international open division gave me an opportunity to put an older team on the floor. As I stated, I started with 3 teams, woops, make that 4... tiny, mini, youth and the international open team. Once other cheerleaders in our area saw that we actually had kids in our organization in that age group, we were able to attract more of that age group; so now we have an open team and a senior team in appropriate divisions. We were able to "grow" just because we had that international open team. We would not stay viable as a gym had we kept that division as we are not competitive at that level at this time. What I do think had happened earlier in its development of this division is a lot of more "name" gyms saw this division as an easier way to get a worlds bid and not because they couldn't field age appropriate teams. (probably going to catch slack for that comment). But at any rate, I think if you are good enough to get a bid to go to Worlds it is not a bad thing if its paid for or partially paid for.