All-Star 25 Day One/75 Day 2

[USACats]

What does everyone think about Varsity Brands using a 25/75 ratio for 2 day comps?

 

[WyldWon]

I like 50/50....a good team is a consistant team...this way the "one day wonder" teams can win.

 

[USACats]

I like 50/50....a good team is a consistant team...this way the "one day wonder" teams can win.

Thank You I agree. Its like a crap shoot....

 

[worldsring09]

50/50. it rewards PRACTICE, and lowers the potential for beating the odds.

 

[King]

Actually 25 / 75 is amazing, DOES reward consistency, and is better than 50 / 50 by a long shot. You just have to know why its great. Judging a large group of teams (which is any amount over 5) can be very difficult to get perfectly right, especially on the first pass. With 25 reverse order you judge all the teams and get them ranking from 1st to last place. Then reverse it for day two. In theory the judges the next day should see the weakest teams at the beginning of the division and the strongest teams at the end of the division. The judges get to see the best team right next to the best team to judge them the most accurately. Because, sometimes seeing a weak team next to a best team CAN inflate the best teams score (or depending on the order the judges might hold back a bit in case something comes along stronger later). And, with a day 1 of 25% the judges can be more concerned with getting the order 'mostly' correct. If I have a top level team out of 10 and we are in the top 3 going into day 2 I know we are in position to be judged well on day 2. If I have a top level team and we BOMB day 1 and we go first I know we have a VERY low chance of winning.

The number one reason why cheersport likes 50/50? It allows them to script out the entire event performance order and makes sure everyone can crossover as much as they would like. You cannot do that with 25/75 reverse order.

 

[wcsstilldeath]

I think 40/60 would be ideal but thats kind of a random combination. This allows teams to get some nerves out day one, and bring their score up day two, but doesnt create a crazy difference in numbers between the two days. This still rewards consistency but allows cheerleaders (especially new ones) to adapt alittle day one.

 

[peytonnmariee]

50/50 IS ONLY FAIR..

 

[peytonnmariee]

think about this...a one day comp. i 100! and you have one shot. no you have 2 shots and you should make them even!

 

[peytonnmariee]

I like 50/50....a good team is a consistant team...this way the "one day wonder" teams can win.

can i shimmy and agree 100023456987654 timess?

 

[cheerinfo]

I like the 25/75. But what I REALLY miss is when you had to MAKE IT to Day 2. Now it's all about warm, fuzzy feelings. Everyone gets a trophy, everyone gets gifts, everyone gets to compete twice. I loved when NCA took the top half and the rest competed at the "Challenge Cup". I also loved when COA took the top half, left the other half to compete and took the winner of that second competition to Day 2. I hate that nowadays, you pay, you compete. BLAH.

 

[nikki93]

i prefer 50/50 that way a team must be consisitent to do well.
and that way if a team gets off a floor and bombs, they cant be alright its okay its only 20%, we can still do good tmrw and win.

 

[USACats]

Actually 25 / 75 is amazing, DOES reward consistency, and is better than 50 / 50 by a long shot. You just have to know why its great. Judging a large group of teams (which is any amount over 5) can be very difficult to get perfectly right, especially on the first pass. With 25 reverse order you judge all the teams and get them ranking from 1st to last place. Then reverse it for day two. In theory the judges the next day should see the weakest teams at the beginning of the division and the strongest teams at the end of the division. The judges get to see the best team right next to the best team to judge them the most accurately. Because, sometimes seeing a weak team next to a best team CAN inflate the best teams score (or depending on the order the judges might hold back a bit in case something comes along stronger later). And, with a day 1 of 25% the judges can be more concerned with getting the order 'mostly' correct. If I have a top level team out of 10 and we are in the top 3 going into day 2 I know we are in position to be judged well on day 2. If I have a top level team and we BOMB day 1 and we go first I know we have a VERY low chance of winning.

The number one reason why cheersport likes 50/50? It allows them to script out the entire event performance order and makes sure everyone can crossover as much as they would like. You cannot do that with 25/75 reverse order.

Hi Kingston, I always admire your responses becasue they are normally well thought out and sound very knowledgable. Becasue of this I am really surprised at your response in regards to this subject. We are really goong to have to agree to disagree on this one. In your quote above you said "If I have a top level team and we BOMB day 1 and we go first I know we have a VERY low chance of winning". So are you saying that if a team (any teams top level or lower level) bombs on days one they SHOULD have a chance of winning? See this is where I see the biggest problem. I feel that ANY team that bombs on day one shouldnt be able to win the competition just like if you bomb on day 2. (Unless everyone bombs, then yes one of the teams that bombed one day will win). However what make it okay for the team to bomb day one to win and not the team that bombed on day 2? It it is 50/50 then the team that is the MOST consistant will win. In my opinion, There is no other way to look at it. It just makes sense. If you were playing a football game would you think it would be fair for the touchdown to be worth 6 points in the first half and 18 points in the 2nd half?

 

[NJ Coach]

Hi Kingston, I always admire your responses becasue they are normally well thought out and sound very knowledgable. Becasue of this I am really surprised at your response in regards to this subject. We are really goong to have to agree to disagree on this one. In your quote above you said "If I have a top level team and we BOMB day 1 and we go first I know we have a VERY low chance of winning". So are you saying that if a team (any teams top level or lower level) bombs on days one they SHOULD have a chance of winning? See this is where I see the biggest problem. I feel that ANY team that bombs on day one shouldnt be able to win the competition just like if you bomb on day 2. (Unless everyone bombs, then yes one of the teams that bombed one day will win). However what make it okay for the team to bomb day one to win and not the team that bombed on day 2? It it is 50/50 then the team that is the MOST consistant will win. In my opinion, There is no other way to look at it. It just makes sense. If you were playing a football game would you think it would be fair for the touchdown to be worth 6 points in the first half and 18 points in the 2nd half?

To me, prelims and finals should be weighted differently. It's hard to compare the scoring to a sport like football, which doesn't have the structure of our 2-day competitions. I absolutely hate 50/50. Yes, it rewards consistency, but it's extremely difficult to make any movement in placement on day 2, without help from other teams. So regardless of what you put out there, or how much you improve your performance, chances are, it won't matter. To me, 50/50 makes day 2 less important. I like the feeling and the pressure of day 2 being worth more. It still rewards consistency, but there's also room for movement in placements. It may diminish the value of day 1, but gives day 2 more of a finals atmosphere.

 

[King]

Hi Kingston, I always admire your responses becasue they are normally well thought out and sound very knowledgable. Becasue of this I am really surprised at your response in regards to this subject. We are really goong to have to agree to disagree on this one. In your quote above you said "If I have a top level team and we BOMB day 1 and we go first I know we have a VERY low chance of winning". So are you saying that if a team (any teams top level or lower level) bombs on days one they SHOULD have a chance of winning? See this is where I see the biggest problem. I feel that ANY team that bombs on day one shouldnt be able to win the competition just like if you bomb on day 2. (Unless everyone bombs, then yes one of the teams that bombed one day will win). However what make it okay for the team to bomb day one to win and not the team that bombed on day 2? It it is 50/50 then the team that is the MOST consistant will win. In my opinion, There is no other way to look at it. It just makes sense. If you were playing a football game would you think it would be fair for the touchdown to be worth 6 points in the first half and 18 points in the 2nd half?

You are looking into that statement too much (very low chance of winning). Why? Because it is sports and there is a chance that anyone will win on any day. So to say a team bombed on day 1 and they have absolutely 0% chance of winning is wrong. Yes they have a chance, its just very low. So, hence, low chance of winning.

25/75 will produce your most consistent ending results and rankings. Now, before we misread consistent as in 'the same people always win' what I mean is 25/75 will produce the most reliable results across the board at every competition. What we want.

 

[USACats]

You are looking into that statement too much (very low chance of winning). Why? Because it is sports and there is a chance that anyone will win on any day. So to say a team bombed on day 1 and they have absolutely 0% chance of winning is wrong. Yes they have a chance, its just very low. So, hence, low chance of winning.

25/75 will produce your most consistent ending results and rankings. Now, before we misread consistent as in 'the same people always win' what I mean is 25/75 will produce the most reliable results across the board at every competition. What we want.

Hi Kingston, I appreciate your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it. I just dont agree at all. I am for the best team winning and by making day one worth so much less you are giving everyone the opprotunity to have a bad day on and giving them a 2nd chance. Why isnt it ok to have a bad day 2 and then still win. Thoughts??? Please know that I am not trying to start an argument. I am looking for some healthy debate so that hopefully in the end I can understand where you and these companies are coming from. When I asked the question to a mojor company they said to me "we'll alot of coaches complain if they have a bad day one they have no chance of winning and my answer is "they shouldnt have "a great chance". Yes everyone should have a chance but you have to agree there are a ton of one day wonder teams out there that can't hit a rouinte 2 days in a row. This gives them more opportunity to win and the consistant 2 day team less of an advantage. Thoughts?? This is what really rubbed me the wrong way.