All-Star The Thread To Stop The Hijacking Of The Cea Thread

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If any of you can honestly say that your child has never competed on more than one team, during the course of a season, for any reason, then you can feel free to comment on crossovers. However, if your kids have won more than one jacket at a competition, or did juniors and seniors simultaneously, or did the open team, and the worlds team during the season, then give it a rest. Be grateful that your kids had an opportunity to display their talent more than once at a competition and call it a day. Just about every gym, for whatever reason, has crossovers. Deal with it. This conversation is tired. How any program chooses to do what they do, is their business. You asked, she answered. You didn't feel satisfied with her answer? Too bad. It is what it is. None of us are new to this game. It's been played for years. Why are we still righteously indignant? Ugggh!
 
If any of you can honestly say that your child has never competed on more than one team, during the course of a season, for any reason, then you can feel free to comment on crossovers. However, if your kids have won more than one jacket at a competition, or did juniors and seniors simultaneously, or did the open team, and the worlds team during the season, then give it a rest. Be grateful that your kids had an opportunity to display their talent more than once at a competition and call it a day. Just about every gym, for whatever reason, has crossovers. Deal with it. This conversation is tired. How any program chooses to do what they do, is their business. You asked, she answered. You didn't feel satisfied with her answer? Too bad. It is what it is. None of us are new to this game. It's been played for years. Why are we still righteously indignant? Ugggh!
Exactly! A coach knows whats best for their athletes. Not parents from other gyms
 
They did "share" athletes for worlds teams this year, med coed has 10 athletes that crossover from se and coed elite (as stated by Courtney in another thread).

If an athlete hasn't "maintained the skills" sounds to me like "duh" maybe you won't be on the team :confused:

If the team wasn't full to start with you can't fill those spots unless you are going to compete for a new bid, you can only compete with the number of athletes that were on the floor when the bid was awarded.

I don't disagree that there are good reasons to be able to make changes and hence the existence of substitutes and alternates for worlds.
im meaning that they dont just tell somebody they're going to be on the team. its that persons decision to be on multiple teams.
 
I dont understand why everybody's coming at me for just stating what I know. I cheered there my whole life and was surrounded by it for years. I know. No need for rude comments.
 
kingston said:
The bid is awarded to a team. That team may switch out a certain number of athletes. There are set rules as to how many athletes may be swapped out.

Thanks! I was just kind of playing with my thoughts out loud.
 
Great answer, I really have no dog in the franchise situation since I am a parent, but it is something newer that seems to be taking off. I was thinking you might have been one of the first to use this concept. So I was wanting to pick your brain on the subject! How big is to big to feel the warm fuzzy family atmosphere relationship with coaches, being a name not a number. This is something I would miss if we left our small gym.


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Sorry this was for you....@StarshipTrooper
 
If any of you can honestly say that your child has never competed on more than one team, during the course of a season, for any reason, then you can feel free to comment on crossovers. However, if your kids have won more than one jacket at a competition, or did juniors and seniors simultaneously, or did the open team, and the worlds team during the season, then give it a rest. Be grateful that your kids had an opportunity to display their talent more than once at a competition and call it a day. Just about every gym, for whatever reason, has crossovers. Deal with it. This conversation is tired. How any program chooses to do what they do, is their business. You asked, she answered. You didn't feel satisfied with her answer? Too bad. It is what it is. None of us are new to this game. It's been played for years. Why are we still righteously indignant? Ugggh!

I can honestly say that my daughter on Stingrays never cross competed. She was on Teal, Teal, Green, Green, Smoke, Orange, Orange, and Orange. She could easily have jumped on another team but Stingrays tries to not do that unless there is an injury or a last minute problem.

I agree with King's earlier post that Roger, while the best coach ever, was not solely responsible for her quality as a cheerleader, or Orange's success as a team. Every single team, stunt, and tumble coach from the age of 8 contributed to her success. Her innate desire for competition and the desire to win comes from her father. That is what level 5 teams at Stingrays are composed of - kids who have the desire to win.

I don't think it's necessary to trash CEA for their crossovers since it is not against the rules. Out of the four years my daughter was on a worlds teams, she was never even beaten by CEA. She won the three times she was on Orange and came in 2nd to Twist and Shout when she was on Smoke.
 
Can every parent in your program claim this? We don't have to agree with everything our coaches do, but the policy of my program is dictated by the head coach and her staff. If my child is going to cheer there, then she is subject to those rules. She may not be called upon to do everything in the gym. But, if we're in for a penny, we're in for a pound. You're daughter did not cross over, but others have and do. There is no rule against it, so to me, as far as CEA, Rays and others who do are concerned its a non-issue.

As far as being beaten by CEA, "on any given Sunday". Congratulations to your daughter.
 
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I think one of the reasons everyone who does not go to CEA has for understanding crossovers is that (talking to mstealtoyou ) culturally is is EXTREMELY different than how we (and I assume most other programs) approach it. At the same time I think most CEA people have a hard time understanding why everyone views it so different than they do. It really is a cultural divide. Crossovers seem to be the pro choice/life discussion of the board as of late. Nothing I have seen or heard of (whether true or not) is illegal in the rules. If it is not illegal then I don't feel like you can get mad at anyone doing any actions within the rules that are legal. There is a new rules cycle up and if people in general feel that passionate please feel free to make suggestions on a general crossover rule and sponsor them.
 
I can honestly say that my daughter on Stingrays never cross competed. She was on Teal, Teal, Green, Green, Smoke, Orange, Orange, and Orange. She could easily have jumped on another team but Stingrays tries to not do that unless there is an injury or a last minute problem.

I agree with King's earlier post that Roger, while the best coach ever, was not solely responsible for her quality as a cheerleader, or Orange's success as a team. Every single team, stunt, and tumble coach from the age of 8 contributed to her success. Her innate desire for competition and the desire to win comes from her father. That is what level 5 teams at Stingrays are composed of - kids who have the desire to win.

I don't think it's necessary to trash CEA for their crossovers since it is not against the rules. Out of the four years my daughter was on a worlds teams, she was never even beaten by CEA. She won the three times she was on Orange and came in 2nd to Twist and Shout when she was on Smoke.
thats what every team is composed of. not just stingray level 5
 
I think one of the reasons everyone who does not go to CEA has for understanding crossovers is that (talking to mstealtoyou ) culturally is is EXTREMELY different than how we (and I assume most other programs) approach it. At the same time I think most CEA people have a hard time understanding why everyone views it so different than they do. It really is a cultural divide. Crossovers seem to be the pro choice/life discussion of the board as of late. Nothing I have seen or heard of (whether true or not) is illegal in the rules. If it is not illegal then I don't feel like you can get mad at anyone doing any actions within the rules that are legal. There is a new rules cycle up and if people in general feel that passionate please feel free to make suggestions on a general crossover rule and sponsor them.
Lots of people have made suggestions on crossover rules. The gap that needs bridging is someone educating the masses on what precisely they can do to 'sponsor' rules, and then finding people with the strength and commitment to follow through - as opposed to just complaining here.
 
Lots of people have made suggestions on crossover rules. The gap that needs bridging is someone educating the masses on what precisely they can do to 'sponsor' rules, and then finding people with the strength and commitment to follow through - as opposed to just complaining here.

I think the discussion here is important though. It vets the ideas, creates discourse, and in a short amount of time with little effort you get a mass of opinions discussing everything.

My views on the whole thing is I see the industry moving to a set limit on number of crossovers in the next couple years. As soon as that door closes it will also never open again (because so few people use them to the level of that the rule currently allows). I imagine when that does eventually pass any gym that the rule affects negatively will adjust and be just as successful as they were before, but in a different way.

You can pretty much tell the things that everyone will wrap up in the next 5 years (crossovers, multi-location gyms, universal scoresheet, actual standard enforcement of legalities, sandbagging) and create rules and limits to fit the majorities wants and needs. I do not own a gym (nor do I want to) but I would make sure my gym could handle the eventualities of these things.
 
I can honestly say that my daughter on Stingrays never cross competed. She was on Teal, Teal, Green, Green, Smoke, Orange, Orange, and Orange. She could easily have jumped on another team but Stingrays tries to not do that unless there is an injury or a last minute problem.

I agree with King's earlier post that Roger, while the best coach ever, was not solely responsible for her quality as a cheerleader, or Orange's success as a team. Every single team, stunt, and tumble coach from the age of 8 contributed to her success. Her innate desire for competition and the desire to win comes from her father. That is what level 5 teams at Stingrays are composed of - kids who have the desire to win.

I don't think it's necessary to trash CEA for their crossovers since it is not against the rules. Out of the four years my daughter was on a worlds teams, she was never even beaten by CEA. She won the three times she was on Orange and came in 2nd to Twist and Shout when she was on Smoke.
thats what every team is composed of. not just stingray level 5

I see where this is going and see how this could turn south quick. doubletrouble's statement was inclusive, not exclusive. She wasnt saying ONLY level 5 kids. She was mentioning a specific group of people in particular.
 
I think the discussion here is important though. It vets the ideas, creates discourse, and in a short amount of time with little effort you get a mass of opinions discussing everything.

My views on the whole thing is I see the industry moving to a set limit on number of crossovers in the next couple years. As soon as that door closes it will also never open again (because so few people use them to the level of that the rule currently allows). I imagine when that does eventually pass any gym that the rule affects negatively will adjust and be just as successful as they were before, but in a different way.

You can pretty much tell the things that everyone will wrap up in the next 5 years (crossovers, multi-location gyms, universal scoresheet, actual standard enforcement of legalities, sandbagging) and create rules and limits to fit the majorities wants and needs. I do not own a gym (nor do I want to) but I would make sure my gym could handle the eventualities of these things.
I agree with everything you are saying from a 'current state' perspective. However, I am going to play Devil's Advocate.

If I had a child age 14-18, what happens five years from now isn't going to do much for me or my child (except continue to deplete my savings). Or if my program was being negatively impacted by the amount of 'play' within the rules today, one year or two could mean the difference between survival and bankruptcy.

For well-established programs, that additional wait time may be acceptable, for others struggling to survive or even to stand firmly within the rules or the beliefs of their gym in ethics and 'fair play' it may not be soon enough. This period also might allow time for those entities who are mis-managing this situation now to continue to gain even more power and influence - in their own eventual self-interest (read this as $$$$).

These are not new problems, so my question would be....what have the powers that be done to correct this in the LAST five years, and why should we believe that in the NEXT five years things will change in a way that represents the interests of the majority of the athletes in this country?

You have knowledge most of us don't. So I am not assuming you don't have the answers we need to hear. We just aren't hearing the full answer from the people who have the inside knowledge and influence.
 
I agree with everything you are saying from a 'current state' perspective. However, I am going to play Devil's Advocate.

If I had a child age 14-18, what happens five years from now isn't going to do much for me or my child (except continue to deplete my savings). Or if my program was being negatively impacted by the amount of 'play' within the rules today, one year or two could mean the difference between survival and bankruptcy.

For well-established programs, that additional wait time may be acceptable, for others struggling to survive or even to stand firmly within the rules or the beliefs of their gym in ethics and 'fair play' it may not be soon enough. This period also might allow time for those entities who are mis-managing this situation now to continue to gain even more power and influence - in their own eventual self-interest (read this as $$$$).

These are not new problems, so my question would be....what have the powers that be done to correct this in the LAST five years, and why should we believe that in the NEXT five years things will change in a way that represents the interests of the majority of the athletes in this country?

You have knowledge most of us don't. So I am not assuming you don't have the answers we need to hear. We just aren't hearing the full answer from the people who have the inside knowledge and influence.


That is just the nature of the game. Good change will be slow and has to win over the mass majority. Some ideas are just before their time and need the chance to develop. Over-reacting is JUST as bad as under-reacting (remember how everyone felt when they change the small small coed scoresheets because of the correction?). You live and work in the rules that are laid out in front of you and understand sometimes change takes time.

As for why the rules should change in a good way to represent the majority of the athletes is that a majority of the coaches will come out and support certain rules. It is like electing a president. Talking/complaining/lauding a president or candidate doesn't get someone elected. It is when the rubber meets the road and someone goes through the process to actually cause change. Your gym and gym owner know how to propose and get rules out there to be voted on.

And, if you feel strongly enough that something is a problem feel free to email the pres and VP of the USASF: Jim Chadwick [email protected] Steve Peterson [email protected] .
 
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