All-Star Punishments/sanctions

[Mamarazzi]

But it's my (very limited at best) understanding that they didn't cheat. They were given permission to bend the rules, possibly due to personal relationships, or whatever. But the point is the didn't cheat, they were just favored. So, who's at fault?

 

[CoachTamara]

But it's my (very limited at best) understanding that they didn't cheat. They were given permission to bend the rules, possibly due to personal relationships, or whatever. But the point is the didn't cheat, they were just favored. So, who's at fault?

This is a whole 'nother can of worms...
If the EP favored a team (once again, taking the CEA-ness out of this and saying ANY team) then they are in the wrong. If scores are changed, or bids given, or rules bended for a team that weren't bent for everyone, then shame on them.

If the situation we are talking about is as tangled as I've heard, I'm going to throw it out there that many, many people are in the wrong and it's ridiculous that this was allowed to happen. The punishment does not fall on one person, but many people.

 

[JumpingJackFlash]

But it's my (very limited at best) understanding that they didn't cheat. They were given permission to bend the rules, possibly due to personal relationships, or whatever. But the point is the didn't cheat, they were just favored. So, who's at fault?

That's one story....I've heard a total of 3 now. All similar, but each more damaging. The reason I have an issue with the story above, is that its pretty benign and wouldn't shock or outrage many in the cheerworld. It might ruffle some feathers, but nothing would have me screaming CHEATER!

Why wouldn't you fess up about it and move on if it were that simple?

Also, if any of the other stories are even close to the truth, this will hurt alot more than just this organization.

 

[cheercurl]

That's one story....I've heard a total of 3 now. All similar, but each more damaging. The reason I have an issue with the story above, is that its pretty benign and wouldn't shock or outrage many in the cheerworld. It might ruffle some feathers, but nothing would have me screaming CHEATER!

Why wouldn't you fess up about it and move on if it were that simple?

Because nothing is ever simple...

 

[JumpingJackFlash]

Because nothing is ever simple...

True, but if this is the story, and they're sticking to it, let the chips fall where they may and move on. There will be new drama soon enough. This story is becoming even bigger and more crazy by the minute.

 

[MomMomMamaMom]

But it's my (very limited at best) understanding that they didn't cheat. They were given permission to bend the rules, possibly due to personal relationships, or whatever. But the point is the didn't cheat, they were just favored. So, who's at fault?

In my opinion, and with no knowledge of who/what/where/when or why. I would say that both are at fault. Take the Bids away from the EP that favored any team, and sanction the team that took the favors. I am not sure I'd strip the title away, because they did have reason to think they were behaving legitimately, but it seems unlikely that any coach would not know they were getting special treatment, and if your willing to accept that, then your willing to accept consequences.

My guess is that this is more common in this industry than I would like to admit, and it's the responsibility of the governing body to enforce strict sanctions. If they are not willing to do so, they are endorsing this type of behavior.

 

[Mom2Cheergirls]

Just wondering with The Summit starting I wonder if there will be an increase in issues with illegal age athletes? I say this because when my girls were younger they went against a team who had girls that were clearly over age - the gym was using them as "backspots" but they were actually holding these girls up and lifting them over their bases in a stunt and there was more than one girl. All of the girls in question also performed on an older team as crossovers. They also had team pics on the web and these girls had been on this younger team for quite a while, and were the only one doing the "harder" tumbling passes. We faced this team a couple of times. It was interesting because after the first comp where a bunch of teams were questioning (not officially but talking) they team in question drastically changed the routine. Those girls still competed but quite honestly looked like junior coaches helping the girls. There was talk of challenging at the first comp - but it did not happen (coaches choice).
So based on this experience with a very young team at a small local comp I am wondering if there will be a higher likelihood of this happening of teams trying to get Summit bids. I know Worlds is THE thing but it is such a small elite level and age group compared to the rest of the sport of developing athletes - I imagine there will be a bigger push for those teams trying to get that Summit bid and win.

 

[FamousMatty]

What I think is there are always extenuating circumstances and innuendo that we are never going to hear about. Things are never black and white in a situation like this. Passing judgement without a complete story is not kind. A person does not deserve to be crucified and lose a stellar reputation that dates back many years...from a singular event. There is a difference between deliberately setting out to deceive or be malicious and seeing grey in an area where some will only see black and white. Also, be careful what you wish for because all eyes are open now. Which actually may be the intention.

How is that for an extremely cryptic response?

I think this post alludes to exactly what I stated in my previous post. It's about a "loved" big gym so now we bring extenuating circumstances and grey areas into play. Cheating is cheating. Just because the EP allows it doesn't mean it's ok. I highly doubt EP #1 approached gym owner #2 and said "Hey why don't you use an illegal crossover and I'll look the other way." and even if it was that scenario if Gym Owner #2 accepts the terms and goes with it they're just as much at fault and whether sever or not guilty of cheating. There should not be a grey area with cheating...you did or you did not. Just because someone oks it doesn't mean you didn't cheat. The person in question knew the rules and knew they were breaking them. If it truly was that the EP gave the go ahead, then they both are to blame. Gym owner looses their bid which in turn means they loose their worlds placement that year, and honestly the EP should loose their ability to give bids the following year. Is it a Glamourous option for the cheer world? No, many people will be affected and upset by it. However, you have to start somewhere and make it clear you're enforcing the rules or else why bother having the rules at all.

As a side note. All the talk I have heard so far leaves me with little hope for my previous post coming true. People are going to find a way to support those in question even if they're found guilty and punished. Also silence says a lot. If I were a gym owner and the integrity of my gym were in question, and I knew it was false, you wouldn't be able to shut me up. I'd be fighting tooth and nail to keep the integrity of my gym in tact.

 

[dawgshow]

Ok I have no idea about what's going on but IMO the cheating question is simple. Did you break the rules? Yes-- you cheated. No-- didn't cheat. If a third party gives you permission to cheat, you still cheated and need to deal with the consequences.
For example, here in Indiana there is much scuttlebutt about teachers who gave their students answers to a standardized test. Not only are the teachers being grid accountable, but so are the students who took the teachers up on the offer. Why? Because ALL parties broke the rules.

 

[NoOneSpecial]

I like to believe the truth lies in the middle. 2 arguing parties have there own truth - so the real truth is maybe somewhere in the middle.

Pleas set rules that are black n white, zero room for interpretation and all parties have to abide by them.

I saw someone state on post above about Gym A not having to pay crossover fees but Gym B does. What the heck is that. Gym B probably needs the crossovers more so then Gym A. Gym A & B are both trying to survive and be competitive - please treat them fairly. (actually eliminate crossovers all together unless injury, but that has been a discussion beaten to death).

 

[TheTalkedAboutMinor]

I assumed in my answers that the world's teams have already competed and placed.

I think that the illegal team member punishment is a bit extreme. I think that you should, if needed, take in an illegal kid only if necessary, and should sign a written consent form with rules. If these rules are broken, the child and coach will be blapped in the world of cheerleading.

 

[kristenthegreat]

Well, for the sake of argument, take Worlds out of it. How do we punish gyms who cheat with their lower levels? Or completely and totally sandbag? To focus just on Worlds teams says that it's ok to cheat because the teams don't matter.

 

[CoachTamara]

Well, for the sake of argument, take Worlds out of it. How do we punish gyms who cheat with their lower levels? Or completely and totally sandbag? To focus just on Worlds teams says that it's ok to cheat because the teams don't matter.

There is nothing that can be done about sandbagging until there are rules on crossovers. But, let's say an overaged athlete is used all season. I think the companies should strip the team of those placements and let it be known. If there is risk of parents finding out, there is risk of them leaving. Most people would not take the risk if it meant losing their business.

 

[dawgshow]

I think that the illegal team member punishment is a bit extreme. I think that you should, if needed, take in an illegal kid only if necessary, and should sign a written consent form with rules. If these rules are broken, the child and coach will be blapped in the world of cheerleading.

I'm confused. In one part you say to break the rule when you need to then you say make the child and coach face the consequences. Clarify?

 

[NEliteSteven]

With the whole back story that has yet to be discussed, I'm thinking this could be a Lifetime movie. And I would watch it. And I'm hoping Jennifer Love Hewitt would play the main role.