All-Star Slowing Progression?

[piglet]

During the Glitter Penguins fiasco it was reiterated a million times that most of the YE crossovers are not "true" level 5 cheerleaders.

Oh dear, what was this?

 

[retiredl5cheer]

Oh dear, what was this?

Not really a fiasco, but when the team was first revealed people were really stuck on the amount of crossovers that there are from YE to GP.

 

[Official OWECheer]

Call me crazy, but I had another thought about mental blocks and progressions this AM on my way to work:

I think that some of the mental blocks, awful technique, can also be attributed to the fact that so many kids "skip level 1."

Call me a nutjob, but you'd be surprised at how many kids with mental blocks on BHS don't have solid BWOs, bridge kickovers, etc. Those skills build on each other and are part of the Level list for a reason.

Why couldn't you have been my coach?

 

[Keep_Believing]

Call me crazy, but I had another thought about mental blocks and progressions this AM on my way to work:

I think that some of the mental blocks, awful technique, can also be attributed to the fact that so many kids "skip level 1."

Call me a nutjob, but you'd be surprised at how many kids with mental blocks on BHS don't have solid BWOs, bridge kickovers, etc. Those skills build on each other and are part of the Level list for a reason.

I have noticed as CP's get older if they stop using & practicing their bow/fwo they lose them.

 

[SheCheers]

I have noticed as CP's get older if they stop using & practicing their bow/fwo they lose them.

This. My kid had a very nice, technically sound BWO when she competed level 1. She never competed it past the age of 7 so, she completely lost it at one point. For fun, her and another level 5 athlete worked on BWOs at open gym one day and she got it back, but it is still very ugly. She cannot do a backbend kick over without a mat under her feet now. Lol.

 

[quitthedrama]

I have noticed as CP's get older if they stop using & practicing their bow/fwo they lose them.

my CP and I were just talking about this yesterday. Most of her team skipped level 1 and can't do BWO. She went through the levels and does a few at least once a week because she says some of her teammates who have the most insane tumbling are jealous lolol

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

No lie, I have worked with college-prep level 4/5 kids in privates whom if you put a gun to their heads and told them that it was a BWO or their own life, they'd be DEAD. Like super dead.

 

[FlexyTumblerMom]

BWO and FWO are skills that are highly dependant on good back flexibility. As kids grow, back flexibility is one of the first things to go - ask a class full of kids 13+ to do a backbend and hold it for a minute and listen to how many groans a whines of how painful it is you hear, then ask the same of 11 and unders and they are like "this is easy". CP knows kids who are level 9/10 gymnasts who can't do a back walkover cause it hurts them too much.

 

[MamaMya04]

That's impressive if you know because my post was about no one specific.

Actually, Most of the reply was for the other quote in my post. I think I was going to reply to you about something else and decided against it but when I replied to someone else, the quote from you was still in the text box. I was going to edit and remove you but I still felt it applied to your point about chucking skills kids aren't ready for. It's dangerous and careless. I'll edit my initial reply.

 

[CheerBank]

No lie, I have worked with college-prep level 4/5 kids in privates whom if you put a gun to their heads and told them that it was a BWO or their own life, they'd be DEAD. Like super dead.

I just asked cp if she could do a BWO. She basically laughed in my face. And she was on a Level 1 team her first year.

 

[uhhlyssa01]

You just might be the best mom ever.

Can you take this conversation on the road - to the peeps whose kids I've done privates with?

There is nothing sadder than seeing a mental blocked kid with a mom who is constantly saying after lessons:

"I don't understand why you can't just throw it!"

"If you don't throw it by August, you have to quit!"

"If you can't get her to throw it, we'll have to go somewhere else!"

Or stopping me as soon as I step off of the gym floor with "Did she THROW IT TODAY?"

or my favorite:

"Can't you just let her fall a couple of times so she'll snap out of it?"

They are n0 closer to throwing it with all the above pressure. They're actually closer to just saying screw cheer and I never want to see this mat again.

The best you can do is just stop asking and just BE THERE.

This was me like 10 years ago...except that person was my COACH!! I'm pretty sure I was the first person in their program to ever get a mental block, and they didn't know how to coach through it. I went from a RO BHS layout to nothing. I was so terrified of throwing skills I'd had for years and they refused to spot me because they knew I could throw those skills, so each practice it got worse and worse til I'd regressed to nothing. I always felt strongly about loyalty and not quitting, but my mother actually had my best interests at heart and suggested I try an open gym at another gym down the street where they wouldn't know me or what my skills were, and I could start over from the basics. The very first thing they did? Fix my round off. Two open gyms later, I had all my skills back plus some new ones, and I never looked back!

I think coaches are slowly getting better at pushing perfection and proper progressions, and we are gradually weeding out the ladder, but it will be a process.

 

[Official OWECheer]

This was me like 10 years ago...except that person was my COACH!! I'm pretty sure I was the first person in their program to ever get a mental block, and they didn't know how to coach through it. I went from a RO BHS layout to nothing. I was so terrified of throwing skills I'd had for years and they refused to spot me because they knew I could throw those skills, so each practice it got worse and worse til I'd regressed to nothing. I always felt strongly about loyalty and not quitting, but my mother actually had my best interests at heart and suggested I try an open gym at another gym down the street where they wouldn't know me or what my skills were, and I could start over from the basics. The very first thing they did? Fix my round off. Two open gyms later, I had all my skills back plus some new ones, and I never looked back!

I think coaches are slowly getting better at pushing perfection and proper progressions, and we are gradually weeding out the ladder, but it will be a process.

I think round offs are the most undervalued running tumbling skill. A poorly executed roundoff will ruin the skills that come after it.

 

[seein_starz]

BWO and FWO are skills that are highly dependant on good back flexibility. As kids grow, back flexibility is one of the first things to go - ask a class full of kids 13+ to do a backbend and hold it for a minute and listen to how many groans a whines of how painful it is you hear, then ask the same of 11 and unders and they are like "this is easy". CP knows kids who are level 9/10 gymnasts who can't do a back walkover cause it hurts them too much.

This is so true, when I first started cheer 12 years ago it was like I didn't have a spine, and now I can barely do bridges/handsprings without it hurting.

 

[mstealtoyou]

^^^^I think this was discussed pretty well in the World Cup Twinkle/Shooting Star thread a few months back.

The short answer (for WC anyway) was not always.

Every kid on SS didn't come up from Twinkles to Starlites to SS.

There are kids who age off of Twinkles and end up on a number of their Level 4 or 5 teams.

I'd assume that the same is true for other gyms who field Y5 as well.

Ex: Every single kid on Senior Elite did not do the YE to JE to Senior Elite path. Every kid on Rays Orange wasn't once a Teal.

In that same vein, every kid on Green or Youth Elite ends up on Orange or Senior Elite. They end up on a variety of L4 or 5 teams.

There are even some Y5 kids who age off of Y5 and decide that they really don't want to cheer anymore and leave cheer entirely.

So I'd imagine that no, it's not a prerquisite to a Worlds team in many places (because very few kids that young even have skills like that, so you can't field Worlds teams entirely based on your Y5/J5.)

This is true for us. Not all SE kids did YE or JE and being on YE and JE doesn't mean you'll make SE. Then....there are kids who did do the YE, JE, SE route. It's a mixture.

 

[Mom2K]

BWO and FWO are skills that are highly dependant on good back flexibility. As kids grow, back flexibility is one of the first things to go - ask a class full of kids 13+ to do a backbend and hold it for a minute and listen to how many groans a whines of how painful it is you hear, then ask the same of 11 and unders and they are like "this is easy". CP knows kids who are level 9/10 gymnasts who can't do a back walkover cause it hurts them too much.

This. My 17yo cp could probably do the backbend, but it's unlikely she'd be able to do much else afterwards.