All-Star Discriminatory Law In Indiana

Tator tots said:

And this is what I think the people who firmly believe that marriage is between a man and a woman are saying. Just like the florist. She didn't say they could not buy flowers from her store (they were customers before and she did business with them plenty of times). The marriage/wedding is what she did not want to participate in due to her religious beliefs.

I for one, don't care but I'm not that religious. I say let anyone marry whoever they love and I, if I owned a business, wouldn't give two hoots if it were gay/straight, whatever. But, I do believe the truly religious have rights as well and if they don't want to participate in a gay marriage, that is their choice.

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I know legal experts will argue this is a lawsuit waiting to happen---but, as a person, I wouldn't want to use a service I felt was against me. Kinda like I wouldn't pay a gym to teach CP if they were nasty to her. While I think business people need to be smarter, I also think if a couple knows you're anti-their relationship then they'll be less likely to use you. I mean, money is money but if you think I'm going to hell then you surely ain't spending my money.

So why do we need laws for it? Have we really gotten to a point in society where a simple no can't just be accepted? This is personal businesses' we're talking about and I have a feeling that pizza place will be out of business down the road like the florist was. That's a natural consequence. Kinda like the boycotting and whatnot from this law---Indiana made a choice, choices have consequences, and we don't need a law to really dictate said consequences.

I don't know...on one hand I feel like people need to be protected, but on the other it's almost too much....this is why I hate politics.

kristenthegreat said:

PS- I meant to tell you how sorry I was for your losses. I can't imagine how difficult and painful it is.

Pregnancy, unwanted or very much wanted, is such an emotional and personal event. That's the part that scares me about becoming a parent someday.

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Thank you.

SL&AM said:

I know legal experts will argue this is a lawsuit waiting to happen---but, as a person, I wouldn't want to use a service I felt was against me. Kinda like I wouldn't pay a gym to teach CP if they were nasty to her. While I think business people need to be smarter, I also think if a couple knows you're anti-their relationship then they'll be less likely to use you. I mean, money is money but if you think I'm going to hell then you surely ain't spending my money.

So why do we need laws for it? Have we really gotten to a point in society where a simple no can't just be accepted? This is personal businesses' we're talking about and I have a feeling that pizza place will be out of business down the road like the florist was. That's a natural consequence. Kinda like the boycotting and whatnot from this law---Indiana made a choice, choices have consequences, and we don't need a law to really dictate said consequences.

I don't know...on one hand I feel like people need to be protected, but on the other it's almost too much....this is why I hate politics.



Thank you.

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Yes we have. People have been sued (and some actually lost the case) because they said no. These type of laws make it harder for cases to be heard.

SL&AM said:

I know legal experts will argue this is a lawsuit waiting to happen---but, as a person, I wouldn't want to use a service I felt was against me. Kinda like I wouldn't pay a gym to teach CP if they were nasty to her. While I think business people need to be smarter, I also think if a couple knows you're anti-their relationship then they'll be less likely to use you. I mean, money is money but if you think I'm going to hell then you surely ain't spending my money.

So why do we need laws for it? Have we really gotten to a point in society where a simple no can't just be accepted? This is personal businesses' we're talking about and I have a feeling that pizza place will be out of business down the road like the florist was. That's a natural consequence. Kinda like the boycotting and whatnot from this law---Indiana made a choice, choices have consequences, and we don't need a law to really dictate said consequences.

I don't know...on one hand I feel like people need to be protected, but on the other it's almost too much....this is why I hate politics.

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Seems the "no" was accepted, then....

SL&AM said:

I know legal experts will argue this is a lawsuit waiting to happen---but, as a person, I wouldn't want to use a service I felt was against me. Kinda like I wouldn't pay a gym to teach CP if they were nasty to her. While I think business people need to be smarter, I also think if a couple knows you're anti-their relationship then they'll be less likely to use you. I mean, money is money but if you think I'm going to hell then you surely ain't spending my money.

So why do we need laws for it? Have we really gotten to a point in society where a simple no can't just be accepted? This is personal businesses' we're talking about and I have a feeling that pizza place will be out of business down the road like the florist was. That's a natural consequence. Kinda like the boycotting and whatnot from this law---Indiana made a choice, choices have consequences, and we don't need a law to really dictate said consequences.

I don't know...on one hand I feel like people need to be protected, but on the other it's almost too much....this is why I hate politics.



Thank you.

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The pizza shop in Indiana has 'temporarily closed down until the dust settles.' Because they were getting calls/social media reactions that ranged from critical to threatening. Their yelp page plummeted (which is only interesting to me because I live in a city lol).

dawgshow said:

Yes we have. People have been sued (and some actually lost the case) because they said no. These type of laws make it harder for cases to be heard.

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I know, it's just depressing...as a society, we should be able to handle this better.

kristenthegreat said:

The pizza shop in Indiana has 'temporarily closed down until the dust settles.' Because they were getting calls/social media reactions that ranged from critical to threatening. Their yelp page plummeted (which is only interesting to me because I live in a city lol).

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If it ever opens again I may be surprised...for real though, I understand your right to feel how you do BUT this is 2015 and viral is a thing. I would not have gone on national TV and said what they did.

Tator tots said:

Seems the "no" was accepted, then....

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That's Fox News though...they are the most conservative/religious news organization. I can't even stand it on my TV because it gives me a headache.

SL&AM said:

That's Fox News though...they are the most conservative/religious news organization. I can't even stand it on my TV because it gives me a headache.

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Ok, well try to overlook Fox News and see the interview for what it is. Are you discriminating against Fox News and can't even view the clip?

The woman who has been accused and her life is being ruined, speaks her views on the matter. It doesn't matter what channel its on, just a woman saying what she believes.

Tator tots said:

Ok, well try to overlook Fox News and see the interview for what it is. Are you discriminating against Fox News and can't even view the clip?

The woman who has been accused and her life is being ruined, speaks her views on the matter. It doesn't matter what channel its on, just a woman saying what she believes.

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I JUST watched a Ted Talk given by Monica Lewinsky. It only has to do with this bit (a woman's life being ruined by a mistake).

Her life has been 'ruined' because she chose to discriminate. Just like those kids from Oklahoma who chose to be racist and chant that chant in their frat. There are a lot of choices being made here- choices all have consequences.

ETA: Closed: Indiana Pizza Parlor That Won't Cater Same-Sex Weddings Because, Jesus - The New Civil Rights Movement Still don't know if this is true or not. But at the very bottom, someone asks him if the owner would ever serve pizza to a wedding for a remarriage. TLDR: He pauses..and goes 'Well, I've never thought about that. I'm divorced myself so..I don't know.'

*Headdesk*

Tator tots said:

Ok, well try to overlook Fox News and see the interview for what it is. Are you discriminating against Fox News and can't even view the clip?

The woman who has been accused and her life is being ruined, speaks her views on the matter. It doesn't matter what channel its on, just a woman saying what she believes.

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Do I discriminate against Fox News? Yes, openly. Like every other news organizations they set up interviews and ask specific questions to get the desired answers.

That being said, I appreciate her beliefs---I do, but I live in a reality that knows if you openly say and do things that are not looked upon favorably, you are going to have to deal with the consequences of it. In this case, that was her consequence.

I don't agree with the lawsuit---I think a no should have been enough, but I look at it as a natural consequence of the society we live in.

SL&AM said:

I know legal experts will argue this is a lawsuit waiting to happen---but, as a person, I wouldn't want to use a service I felt was against me. Kinda like I wouldn't pay a gym to teach CP if they were nasty to her. While I think business people need to be smarter, I also think if a couple knows you're anti-their relationship then they'll be less likely to use you. I mean, money is money but if you think I'm going to hell then you surely ain't spending my money.

So why do we need laws for it? Have we really gotten to a point in society where a simple no can't just be accepted? This is personal businesses' we're talking about and I have a feeling that pizza place will be out of business down the road like the florist was. That's a natural consequence. Kinda like the boycotting and whatnot from this law---Indiana made a choice, choices have consequences, and we don't need a law to really dictate said consequences.

I don't know...on one hand I feel like people need to be protected, but on the other it's almost too much....this is why I hate politics.



Thank you.

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The problem is, we can't always predict what those consequences will be. Going out of business isn't at all guaranteed, especially in small communities that are overwhelmingly and aggressively anti-gay, black, Muslim, etc. People who belong to minority groups in those areas don't have the freedom to just find another business–there aren't any. Being able to choose from a variety of services is a privilege, and in areas where the vast majority of the community supports discriminatory practices, members of marginalized groups don't have the luxury of being supported through economic/social backlash. In cities where there are enough alternative options, it might be ideal for businesses to be "free" to discriminate, but I'm not sure how you can decide what counts as "enough" without being arbitrary.

Part of me agrees that business should be able to practice bigotry, and customers should be free to find an equally good alternative service. Since there often aren't equal (or any) alternatives, I think it's generally better to restrict business' "freedom" to discriminate so that minority groups can have more freedom to fully participate in society.

Tator tots said:

Ok, well try to overlook Fox News and see the interview for what it is. Are you discriminating against Fox News and can't even view the clip?

The woman who has been accused and her life is being ruined, speaks her views on the matter. It doesn't matter what channel its on, just a woman saying what she believes.

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Well to be fair, I wouldn't watch MSNBC or CNN if they were the last "news" channels on the planet!

Tator tots said:

Ok, well try to overlook Fox News and see the interview for what it is. Are you discriminating against Fox News and can't even view the clip?

The woman who has been accused and her life is being ruined, speaks her views on the matter. It doesn't matter what channel its on, just a woman saying what she believes.

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I'm just going to butt in to this conversation and say that, personally, I would rather have a tarantula set loose in my bed or drink a smoothie made of offal than voluntarily watch Fox News.

Sorry for my intrusion, carry on...

mccracal said:

The problem is, we can't always predict what those consequences will be. Going out of business isn't at all guaranteed, especially in small communities that are overwhelmingly and aggressively anti-gay, black, Muslim, etc. People who belong to minority groups in those areas don't have the freedom to just find another business–there aren't any. Being able to choose from a variety of services is a privilege, and in areas where the vast majority of the community supports discriminatory practices, members of marginalized groups don't have the luxury of being supported through economic/social backlash. In cities where there are enough alternative options, it might be ideal for businesses to be "free" to discriminate, but I'm not sure how you can decide what counts as "enough" without being arbitrary.

Part of me agrees that business should be able to practice bigotry, and customers should be free to find an equally good alternative service. Since there often aren't equal (or any) alternatives, I think it's generally better to restrict business' "freedom" to discriminate so that minority groups can have more freedom to fully participate in society.

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I know, but this also falls in line with my ideal that if I lived in an area that was anti-me, I likely wouldn't stay there. It's as equally hard for me to understand why a business would turn away the potential for more money as it is me understanding why a gay couple would live in a town that felt they were going to hell. Neither scenario computes for me.

And this is exactly why I said I was torn---equality in the form we're trying to achieve is a myth. The idea of separate but equal can't actually be sustained and to oppress one group by being freed from oppression is still oppressing behavior. The difference is which side gets stepped on. So I feel like our laws are trying to find an impossible balance and why more than ever I understand why the Founding Father's wrote about religion in the Constitution the way they did.

nicolee said:

I'm just going to butt in to this conversation and say that, personally, I would rather have a tarantula set loose in my bed or drink a smoothie made of offal than voluntarily watch Fox News.

Sorry for my intrusion, carry on...

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I want to google offal to figure out what it means, but I'm scared.

I can't stand Fox News---then again, I can't stand most 24/7 news organizations that are always on repeat either, but Fox makes me cringe a lot.

SL&AM said:

I'm so sorry for your mother's losses. We're so lucky to have our two daughter's, but after our youngest was born we made the difficult decision to use a permanent birth control option so that we could never be in the position again to go through it. Our first four were pre-CP and when we lost our son I was a wreck for almost a year. When we lost our fifth I could feel myself wanting to go backwards but had CP (she was about a year old) and had to like snap myself out. Youngest was a surprise...and by surprise I mean I went in to get more genetic counselling exactly 30 days after our loss and was told my HCG went up. Had we not been pregnant then I'm not sure I would have ever been strong enough to attempt it again. I have a genetic anomaly due to 2 years of chemotherapy so I knew going into having kids it would be hard, but nothing...and I mean nothing, could have prepared me for that. But I count myself lucky, my eldest sister lost 7...when I think of what she went through, 5 isn't so high anymore.

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My mom had the first i think between me and my brother (im born 1990 and he is born 1995) then between my br0ther Anders and my oldest sister Rose she had like 4 or 5 (she is born in 2002) an between her and my little baby sister she had a couple more (my sister is not so baby anymore she is 7 almost 8 born in 2007 but for me she will alwaysbe my baby sister) and i do not know if shes had anymore after Ronja (the baby) My moms never really had any problems and she until this day do not know why shes had so many. im the only one that was a surprise. My parents had only dated a few months when she got pregnant. but i was a welcome surprise.

I still feel bad for you. having a misscarriage cant be fun no matter how many youve had not speaking of any experience for myself since ive never even had a boyfriend.. but my mom hastalked with me about it alot.

Im kinda happy to be living in sweden right now where us LGBTQ persons are treated as individuals (im pansexual thogh still in the closet due to personal reasons) and have been able to marry since 2009 and are treated like everybody else. i feel for the people in indiana and anywhere else that are treated bad because of there sexual orientation (not saying homophobia doesnt exist in sweden because of course it does.. but the laws are not homophobic.)

and sorry for the double post but had o write this.

Miialovescheer said:

Im kinda happy to be living in sweden right now where us LGBTQ persons are treated as individuals (im pansexual thogh still in the closet due to personal reasons) and have been able to marry since 2009 and are treated like everybody else. i feel for the people in indiana and anywhere else that are treated bad because of there sexual orientation (not saying homophobia doesnt exist in sweden because of course it does.. but the laws are not homophobic.)

and sorry for the double post but had o write this.

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In Australia, over 75% of citizens believe in same-sex marriage, and it's a similar statistic for same-sex couple adoption rights. The law just hasn't caught up to it yet.

When one state legalized gay marriage, the extremely conservative (and mostly widely hated) federal government got the decision overturned, and all those marriages were nullified. My heart breaks for those people who were suddenly told that, even though they were legally married in front of family and friends, their country wouldn't recognize them.