All-Star Is Copying A Big Deal?

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didnt an international team use one of senior elites music mixes one year at worlds?

but im not too surprised if it happens a lot between allstars and high school i mean there really isnt a way to regulate/monitor that. Maybe thats why some teams/gyms have rules against being able to do both.
 
The only thing I could think about was the year Hank gave Greenup and River Cities all girl pretty much the same routine. I don’t remember the exact year it was 2004, 2005ish time frame

I mean....given proximity to each other, is it not possible River Cities was Greenup with maybe a couple different kids thrown in the mix?

River Cities was Hank’s gym and it’s right across the border from Greenup Co if I have my geography correct.
 
THAT'S TRUE. I didn't even think of it in a scammy kind of way.

Did this guy Hank think he wouldn't get caught since it was HS vs AS and that no one would notice? Or did he just not care? I guess he could've argued that the changes made to each team's version technically made for two different routines... but just barely.

This happens all the time:

If I owned an all star gym and had a killer level 4 or 5 team that was made up mostly of my high school kids that I coach...

Or even at the middle school level..

If those kids are getting repetition after repetition of the same or similar skills day after day over two different routines, their consistency is going to be off the charts.
 
This happens all the time:

If I owned an all star gym and had a killer level 4 or 5 team that was made up mostly of my high school kids that I coach...

Or even at the middle school level..

If those kids are getting repetition after repetition of the same or similar skills day after day over two different routines, their consistency is going to be off the charts.

Yep.

Example: Gymtyme's Level 7 teams and Louisville Large Coed/All Girl.

Same kids. Basically the same routine modified to the different rules.

Because work smart not harder.
 
This happens all the time:

If I owned an all star gym and had a killer level 4 or 5 team that was made up mostly of my high school kids that I coach...

Or even at the middle school level..

If those kids are getting repetition after repetition of the same or similar skills day after day over two different routines, their consistency is going to be off the charts.

Our song/pom parents are actually bitterly divided over this issue.

The song/pom coach also runs a dance studio nearby where about half of the kids on the team are also enrolled. So sometimes she reuses her studio choreo from the previous year and translates it into song/pom choreo for the following year, which works because half the kids are already familiar with it/good at it.

However, the parents of the kids who are paying for dance classes AND her song/pom comp choreo aren’t really thrilled that they’re essentially paying for the same thing twice. In addition to essentially being billed twice, they argue that they want their kids to learn a variety of skills which is hard to do if they’re just redoing doing the same turn sequence for a year. The parents feel their kids could/should be learning new skills in that time instead of plateauing with skills they already know. So half the parents want another coach while the other half don’t because... the coach is really good. What she does works.

I get both sides of the argument. I understand why parents don’t want to pay for the same choreo twice so — arguably— their kids can be less skilled. But at the same time, the choreo she reuses is great. It’s challenging and entertaining and wins them lots of titles. Hard to argue with that.
 
Our song/pom parents are actually bitterly divided over this issue.

The song/pom coach also runs a dance studio nearby where about half of the kids on the team are also enrolled. So sometimes she reuses her studio choreo from the previous year and translates it into song/pom choreo for the following year, which works because half the kids are already familiar with it/good at it.

However, the parents of the kids who are paying for dance classes AND her song/pom comp choreo aren’t really thrilled that they’re essentially paying for the same thing twice. In addition to essentially being billed twice, they argue that they want their kids to learn a variety of skills which is hard to do if they’re just redoing doing the same turn sequence for a year. The parents feel their kids could/should be learning new skills in that time instead of plateauing with skills they already know. So half the parents want another coach while the other half don’t because... the coach is really good. What she does works.

I get both sides of the argument. I understand why parents don’t want to pay for the same choreo twice so — arguably— their kids can be less skilled. But at the same time, the choreo she reuses is great. It’s challenging and entertaining and wins them lots of titles. Hard to argue with that.

Recitals versus competitions. In a learning environment, you learn the material, show what you've learned, and move on to the next. In a competitive environment, you learn the material and repeat it until it's perfected enough to be competitive with the best. If the choreography is winning material, as a parent, I wouldn't complain. In a competitive environment, you're paying for competitive choreography and if it's not competitive, for it to be changed quickly.

From my experience, this difference in mentality is where parents and athletes get frustrated. I understand there are some kids that get bored quickly, don't care if their technique is perfect, and they just want the skill and to move on to the next skill. For those kids and parents, a competitive environment isn't the best one for them. All a coach can do is stress over and over they're in a competitive environment, the bar is constantly rising and last years improperly placed feet, low jumps, under rotated, etc. will just put them lower in placement the next year. Recitals versus competitions.
 
It's a big deal when you're paying thousands of dollars for a choreographer to create a unique routine for your team.
And hundreds for a custom uniform and it gets copied almost identical the same season. I'm looking at you Rebel.
 
To answer, "Is copying a big deal?" It is if it's copyrighted, patented or trademarked. There are positive and negative reasons for it being extremely hard to get proprietor rights to choreography and fashion designs. Even when choreographers are hired to create dances for Broadway or videos, it's generally the owner of the production that owns the rights. I'm not sure that choreographers as great as Jerome Robbins (West Side Story) or Bob Fosse (Steam Heat) ever got exclusive rights to their choreography (them, not the producer). Anyone?
 
To answer, "Is copying a big deal?" It is if it's copyrighted, patented or trademarked. There are positive and negative reasons for it being extremely hard to get proprietor rights to choreography and fashion designs. Even when choreographers are hired to create dances for Broadway or videos, it's generally the owner of the production that owns the rights. I'm not sure that choreographers as great as Jerome Robbins (West Side Story) or Bob Fosse (Steam Heat) ever got exclusive rights to their choreography (them, not the producer). Anyone?

Doubtful they own the copyright to "the dance" because "the dance", by itself, is not copyrightable.

It is the dance related to the accompanying time (the music/words/story/what have you) that makes it copyrightable. Usually the choreographers don't own the rights to the story or the music that accompanies the dance. And the choreographers are hired to create the dance for the producers, which at that point, the hired work is not really theirs, legally.
 
I do know that Jerome Robbins is credited with the West Side Story choreography in all performances so I think he (well, his estate) holds the copyright. He DOES hold the copyright to a number of ballets.

Copyright law and choreography are a messy thing though.
 
Recitals versus competitions. In a learning environment, you learn the material, show what you've learned, and move on to the next. In a competitive environment, you learn the material and repeat it until it's perfected enough to be competitive with the best. If the choreography is winning material, as a parent, I wouldn't complain. In a competitive environment, you're paying for competitive choreography and if it's not competitive, for it to be changed quickly.

From my experience, this difference in mentality is where parents and athletes get frustrated. I understand there are some kids that get bored quickly, don't care if their technique is perfect, and they just want the skill and to move on to the next skill. For those kids and parents, a competitive environment isn't the best one for them. All a coach can do is stress over and over they're in a competitive environment, the bar is constantly rising and last years improperly placed feet, low jumps, under rotated, etc. will just put them lower in placement the next year. Recitals versus competitions.

The studio is competitive as well. They do have shows twice a year for both the competitive and non-competitive kids, but its main reason for existing is to produce competitive dancers. The coach also has a background in NFL cheer, both as a cheerleader and as head choreographer. So she knows what she’s doing. But these competitive parents are pushy. And like I said, I kind of get it, but not enough that I’d push out the award-winning coach over it. I really don’t know how they think they’ll do better than her when you consider the alternative would probably be a bored AF teacher who just wants the stipend.
 
One thing I've noticed is that certain coaches also use certain elements for multiple teams. For example, the pyramid sequence for both the middle and high school teams our All Star coaches coach bore a pretty strong resemblance to the pyramids their all Star teams were competing, and the same for stunts. The same coach coaches high school and college pom and also works with cheer teams on dance choreo,and again, sometimes the same sequence of moves will be obvious. There isn't really carryover between teams, except that sometimes after NHSCC some of the middle and high school girls will come in to fill spots that have opened on all Star teams, but it is pretty much impossible to do both (I've known a few kids who do Sideline and All Star, but not competitive and All Star) -it's not illegal, just logistically difficult, so I think it's just that the coaches like those moves, know they can coach them well, and they score well. It even somewhat creeps into the rec teams that meet at the gym, becsuse often the All Star coaches come in to help the volunteer coaches choreograph.
 
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