All-Star Age Grid 2020-2021

catlady · Mar 9, 2020

CLynn said:
You can see bids awarded using this link
2019-2020 Summit Bid Reveals - Entries - Varsity

Thank you, unfortunately I don't know all of the gyms well enough to tell which are non-US teams, but by guessing with the names it looks like very few are actually non-US Int'l teams. That sight did give total entries, however, and at the Summit there are currently 1167 total entries and 284 are International, so not nearly close enough to replace the current 953 D2 entries.

luv2cheer92 · Mar 10, 2020

catlady said:
Thank you, unfortunately I don't know all of the gyms well enough to tell which are non-US teams, but by guessing with the names it looks like very few are actually non-US Int'l teams. That sight did give total entries, however, and at the Summit there are currently 1167 total entries and 284 are International, so not nearly close enough to replace the current 953 D2 entries.

Curious as to what you think the purpose of D2 is and why the changes in the age grid would decrease the need for it. It's not going to change the size of the gym/talent pool and the often limited resources small gyms have, which seemed to be some of the leading points to add the split in the first place. I'm all for less divisions, but maybe I'm missing something with this one.

Newishcheermama · Mar 10, 2020

It doesn't seem to me like there's a move to get rid of D2, in fact, it seems just the opposite. A lot of the competitions we've been to this year have been split D1 and D2. That didn't seem to be the case in previous years - definitely not to this extent. Maybe they're trying to consolidate the teams a bit so there's more competition in certain divisions?

catlady · Mar 10, 2020

luv2cheer92 said:
Curious as to what you think the purpose of D2 is and why the changes in the age grid would decrease the need for it. It's not going to change the size of the gym/talent pool and the often limited resources small gyms have, which seemed to be some of the leading points to add the split in the first place. I'm all for less divisions, but maybe I'm missing something with this one.

Having the Jr level age grid spanning over ages 5-16 in levels 1-3 would allow small gyms to create teams for almost everyone that walks through their door. It used to be having a hand full of higher level athletes on lower level teams really had an impact on competition and so people would get upset about crossover rules, but IMO the Summit has changed that. Competitive Summit teams aren't putting athletes with head grazing bhs's on their level 2 teams like they did pre-Summit years. The kids with a flyspring, valdez bhs, triple running bhs, bwo bhs, cartwheel bhs, incredible body positions, good jumps and solid stunting abilities are the ones making level 2 and winning the Summit. So now, if a small gym chooses to build a level 2 team with a good percentage of level 3 and 4 athletes, IMO the amount of multi level crossovers doesn't have the same competitive impact it had 4-5 years ago. Both Summit and D2 only allow athletes to crossover to two teams now, so I'm just not seeing the benefit for the separation of the two anymore.

luv2cheer92 · Mar 10, 2020

catlady said:
Having the Jr level age grid spanning over ages 5-16 in levels 1-3 would allow small gyms to create teams for almost everyone that walks through their door. It used to be having a hand full of higher level athletes on lower level teams really had an impact on competition and so people would get upset about crossover rules, but IMO the Summit has changed that. Competitive Summit teams aren't putting athletes with head grazing bhs's on their level 2 teams like they did pre-Summit years. The kids with a flyspring, valdez bhs, triple running bhs, bwo bhs, cartwheel bhs, incredible body positions, good jumps and solid stunting abilities are the ones making level 2 and winning the Summit. So now, if a small gym chooses to build a level 2 team with a good percentage of level 3 and 4 athletes, IMO the amount of multi level crossovers doesn't have the same competitive impact it had 4-5 years ago. Both Summit and D2 only allow athletes to crossover to two teams now, so I'm just not seeing the benefit for the separation of the two anymore.

I still think many, many small gyms feel they are at a large disadvantage compared to big gyms when it comes to talent pools, resources, being able to share athletes between different locations, etc. And I don't think altering the age grid will change that.

CLynn · Mar 10, 2020

luv2cheer92 said:
I still think many, many small gyms feel they are at a large disadvantage compared to big gyms when it comes to talent pools, resources, being able to share athletes between different locations, etc. And I don't think altering the age grid will change that.

I'll reiterate again I am not a fan of the new grid and hope it is not final. That said based on the parents I've chatted with traveling, I think the last thing D2 gyms want are to be combined with D1. A few even mentioned sending teams to separate comps and being scared of adding a few more athletes bc they don't want to go against D1. I can't say if those concerns are valid or not, but that perception of disadvantage exists.

luv2cheer92 · Mar 10, 2020

CLynn said:
I'll reiterate again I am not a fan of the new grid and hope it is not final. That said based on the parents I've chatted with traveling, I think the last thing D2 gyms want are to be combined with D1. A few even mentioned sending teams to separate comps and being scared of adding a few more athletes bc they don't want to go against D1. I can't say if those concerns are valid or not, but that perception of disadvantage exists.

Agreed. I think there would be major uproar if they got rid of D2.

BlueCat · Mar 10, 2020

I would think there is basically zero chance of D2 going away. In fact, some are now asking for yet another separate classification - D3.

Keep_Believing · Mar 10, 2020

Wow! I understand keeping D2, but can’t imagine adding a D3.

oncecoolcoachnowmom · Mar 11, 2020

Said it before but I can see a D2 Worlds coming in the next 2-3 years.

It's the next logical step following creation of D2 Summit.

oncecoolcoachnowmom · Mar 11, 2020

Side question:

I wonder to what degree you see gyms acting strategically during tryouts to STAY D2 and avoid D1 status.

Ex: Shady Athletics knows that once they hit XYZ number of kids, they are not D2 anymore. So instead of fielding a Large Junior 2, they cut kids to keep the gym small and make it a Small J2. Or instead of taking all those Tinys that showed up, you encourage some of them to enroll in their Mommy and Me cheer class and avoid making a Tiny 1 altogether.

123jump4! · Mar 11, 2020

@BlueCat what do you think of the new junior max age (15-16) being so high, there’s not much difference to senior? Is this final or could it still change...?

CLynn · Mar 11, 2020

Keep_Believing said:
Wow! I understand keeping D2, but can’t imagine adding a D3.

I wouldn't like it, but almost can imagine. I would love to see a list if one is available, but outside of Upper Marion Allstars I can't off the top of my head think of many D2 gyms that have become D1. I think many are "professional D2" rent space in other facilities and figure out their business models with a limited number of people. In that case it probably is very difficult for true start ups or really small programs.

oncecoolcoachnowmom said:
Side question:

I wonder to what degree you see gyms acting strategically during tryouts to STAY D2 and avoid D1 status.

Ex: Shady Athletics knows that once they hit XYZ number of kids, they are not D2 anymore. So instead of fielding a Large Junior 2, they cut kids to keep the gym small and make it a Small J2. Or instead of taking all those Tinys that showed up, you encourage some of them to enroll in their Mommy and Me cheer class and avoid making a Tiny 1 altogether.

You would think it is in their financial best interests to grow but I also wonder, and based on what I've heard it is not uncommon.

catlady · Mar 11, 2020

BlueCat said:
I would think there is basically zero chance of D2 going away. In fact, some are now asking for yet another separate classification - D3.

Oh geez. Last year, I watched the D1 and D2 winner videos to see where the competitive bar was set for this year, and IMO, the D2 winners looked just as competitive compared to the D1 winners. I tend to hate that "disadvantage" seems to translate into "can't" or "not good enough" in the minds of many teachers, coaches, parents and kids, and therefore, I'm not a fan. With that said, I realize multiple divisions help fill venues to maximum capacity and with scoring accuracy, so I'm sure you're right.

BlueCat · Mar 11, 2020

We may be the most "D1-est" program out there, so I can't really comment on the differences between the two without setting off a firestorm. However, nothing about the current state of our sport leads me to "we just need more divisions and more championship titles to hand out".

All-Star Age Grid 2020-2021

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