USASF off the hook, why?

If everyone is so completely in favor of a universal score sheet, then have a gym owner or coach propose it this fall, have it passed at NACCC next January and there you go! Event producers probably won't have any issues with it.

You can also talk to your USASF rep and volunteer to serve on one of the many committees that work on issues.

Will do

The event producers do have an issue with it, that is the problem. They think their score sheet is their identity. For Example: A Jamfest team goes to Jamfest because they can win there with their routine even though they may not win anywhere else.

Kingston said:

The event producers do have an issue with it, that is the problem. They think their score sheet is their identity. For Example: A Jamfest team goes to Jamfest because they can win there with their routine even though they may not win anywhere else.

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I was being sarcastic. That's my point. Three people on here agreeing that cheerleading needs a universal score sheet is not a universal opinion.

Maybe there does need to be one. But it cannot be done by fiat. There has to be agreement from a variety of different groups and the event producers are one of the biggest.

well from what I understand there have already been a lot of attempts at universal score sheets but Varsity likes their scoresheet, and JAMfest likes their scoresheet, and Cheersport likes their scoresheet, and All Star Challenge likes their scoresheet.... now to get people to make changes to their own system that they put a lot of time into and take a lot of pride in and created to reward, what they consider to be, the best style of cheerleading is going to take a lot of compromise and likely a LONG time

I don't want a unified scoresheet.....

DoubleTrouble said:

Really? Then they should be judging high school becasue I know what those judges make and it kind of makes me sick.

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How much do judges make?

BlueCat said:

Far too much vague "wiggle room" for judges. I don't want a boring, completely objective scoresheet, but I think the Varsity one is too far towards the subjective side. The old NCA one was nearly perfect, IMO.

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You also knew the old NCA score sheet the best. How much do you think that factors into your opinion of it?

CharlotteASMom said:

KB_Legend said:

scflips said:

I don't think that USASF should pay for judges to be certified. I think if a judge wants to judge at a major event then they should be required to pay to be certified. I believe that major events pay more for their judges so they should be required to be legit.

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Even the biggest cheer competitions don't really pay that well as far as judges go...

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Most certified positions pay for their own education and testing.....Real Estate agents, Plumbers, Architects, Electricians, etc etc etc

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My willingness to pay to get certified would depend on several things. The first is what it takes to get certified. If it's a $25 online course that will take 16 hours to complete from the comfort of my couch, I'd probably do it. If it's a week long course in Dallas that I have to use a week of vacation for, buy a flight, pay for a hotel for 4 nights, and pay for a course, I probably wouldn't do it.

If I'm going to be required to spend a significant amount of money to be able to judge, I would like reasonable assurance from the event producers that I'm going to be staffed enough to make it worth while, factoring in certification time and costs, time off from work, and time away from home.

Another thing to keep in mind is the ability to get new judges. Costly (time-wise or financially) prerequisites may prevent new people from entering the judging pool and since the topic of judges keeps coming up because people aren't happy with the pool we have now, it would be wise to avoid adding barriers that prevent new people from getting in the pool.

Andre said:

DoubleTrouble said:

Really? Then they should be judging high school becasue I know what those judges make and it kind of makes me sick.

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How much do judges make?

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$8.00 Per Team - 12-20 Teams
$7.00 Per Team - 21+ Teams
Plus mileage
Minimum 12 Teams

Our high school hosted a competition as a fundraiser in which approx 40 teams competed. There were 7 judges.

Andre..this seems reasonable.

I spent about $500 initially and $100 a year in continuing ed to be able to sell and manage real estate (no travel needed). While I'm sure there are A LOT more RE agents than Allstar judges, I'd still think a comparable or less amount could be done for judge training.

DoubleTrouble said:

Andre said:

DoubleTrouble said:

Really? Then they should be judging high school becasue I know what those judges make and it kind of makes me sick.

Click to expand...

How much do judges make?

Click to expand...

$8.00 Per Team - 12-20 Teams
$7.00 Per Team - 21+ Teams
Plus mileage
Minimum 12 Teams

Our high school hosted a competition as a fundraiser in which approx 40 teams competed. There were 7 judges.

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The largest judging check I got this year was under $500, most being 3-something. The most teams I judged was approximately 150 each day of a 2 day competition.

So judging in cheerleading for a weekend gets $350, and judging gymnastics for a weekend gets $2000. Hmmmm......

Just to do numbers why is it so much different?

How much does it cost to compete gymnastics? Do they have to rent an venue? How many athletes go?

Andre said:

BlueCat said:

Far too much vague "wiggle room" for judges. I don't want a boring, completely objective scoresheet, but I think the Varsity one is too far towards the subjective side. The old NCA one was nearly perfect, IMO.

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You also knew the old NCA score sheet the best. How much do you think that factors into your opinion of it?

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That is probably part of it, however, I think there are valid concerns beyond that.

The "compromise" that NCA had to make to merge it's scoring system with the other (far inferior) scoring systems made it weaker, IMO. NCA's system was a finely tuned machine that had been honed for decades. To have to bring in pieces of the other Varsity systems to keep everyone there happy made it suffer.

Biggest issue (from what I can tell from the precious limited information available to coaches): Teams with very average, at best, difficulty were getting .8 or even .9s in their range. Execution scores had a much higher spread. This effectively negated the value of difficulty and dramatically increased execution scores. If that was their goal, then they should have been up front about that from the beginning instead of presenting it as an even balance between the two.

So is it a matter of a bad scoresheet or a scoresheet being used improperly?