All-Star 25 Day One/75 Day 2

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I wouldn't say 25/75, I agree that it is way too much. I would like a 50/50 so you could win for consistency, but I would like some leeway so you can at least try and move up in position. There should be some balance in all of this.
 
Okay could I just make a quick example and put this away?
Who do you think the fair winner should be? Team ABC is the winner if the scoring is 25/75. Do you agree...

Team ABC- Day one score 75 and day 2 score 96
Team DEF- Day one score 90 and day 2 score 90

Just so you know with with team ABC being Day 1 score 75 and day 2 score 96. It would be a tie is Team DEF day one score is a 90 and day 2 score is a 91.

What competition do you know of where people are scoring legit 75 and 96? The varsity scoresheet itself prevents this.

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It seems to me like this is 2 separate discussions. I think a prelims/finals set up is different than just a 2 day comp. Prelims/finals implies that not everyone makes it to finals. In which case, I think finals should count more than prelims. But if it's just a 2 day comp where everyone makes it to day 2 regardless of where they place, i think both days should count the same. There's no reason for day 2 in a 2 day comp to be worth more. In a prelims/finals set up, there is reason to have finals count for more.
 
I like the 25/75. But what I REALLY miss is when you had to MAKE IT to Day 2. Now it's all about warm, fuzzy feelings. Everyone gets a trophy, everyone gets gifts, everyone gets to compete twice. I loved when NCA took the top half and the rest competed at the "Challenge Cup". I also loved when COA took the top half, left the other half to compete and took the winner of that second competition to Day 2. I hate that nowadays, you pay, you compete. BLAH.
NCA college nationals still does top half make it to finals, the rest compete in challenge cup and only the winner of challenge cup moves on to finals. I love it cause everyone has something to reach for, the bottom teams go in with hopes of making finals and are ecstatic if they do, and the top teams are hoping to win.
 
Personally I want to see a team who can hit consistently. I think that the new 25 / 75 and moving the deductions from 0.5 and 1 down to 0.25 and 0.5 are going to make more and more teams try things they arent ready for and fall all over the place. This will be the season of falls. :( I would rather see a team do easier stunts and hit rock solid any day other a team who is trying really difficult things and falling all over the place, or a team that cant hit day one and win on day 2.
 
What competition do you know of where people are scoring legit 75 and 96? The varsity scoresheet itself prevents this.

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I was just trying to make a point. .... Thats even worse then. So if you bomb the first day then the varsity scoresheet will still give you a score as if you didnt bomb which makes it even more unfair. Then it still gives the team that didnt do well on the first day an unfair advantage and it doesnt allow the tem that didnt bomb to win. It is what it is and like I said we are going to have to agree to disagree. Everyone has choices. Have a great season with your teams.
 
I think my ideal split, in theory, would be 1/3, 2/3.

Next (related) question - should events make it so the same judging panel does day 2 that did day 1?

The panel changing doesnt matter to me as much as the 50/50 split vs 25/75 split. I do like the same panel better but All Star Challenge changes their panels becasue they say they have the same faith in all of their judges and we still go and the placements are unsually pretty on.
 
I was just trying to make a point. .... Thats even worse then. So if you bomb the first day then the varsity scoresheet will still give you a score as if you didnt bomb which makes it even more unfair. Then it still gives the team that didnt do well on the first day an unfair advantage and it doesnt allow the tem that didnt bomb to win. It is what it is and like I said we are going to have to agree to disagree. Everyone has choices. Have a great season with your teams.

I don't think you understand how scoring works at Varsity. Your difficulty score in general doesn't have a lot of play for what you attempt and bomb. You can do squad double ups and drop two (getting deductions and hampering your execution score) but it won't drop you out of range. Level 5 range is 90-100 (though level 5 is weird because of baskets and restricted so more like 86 to 100). You simply can't get enough deductions to get to 75. They'd stop counting them (we know this personally.... Purple tried to one year).

Find an actual mathematical example of your point and that will help. let me give a mathematical counter example. Platinum two year ago at NCA had a killer day 1 and was in the lead by a ton. For day two it was very rough.... But they still won (by hundredths). Even in the extreme counter example (bad day on day 2 but good on day 1) a team can cheat the math and find a way to win and not be consistent. But that's sports.
 
I disagree there are a lot of 1 day wonders at 27/75 comps. In fact, the competition that has the most obscure and random winners is CHEERSPORT (the 50/50 competition with wildly varying scores). When competition fields have a LOT of teams (let us say Worlds) did we find the placements varied much from day 1 to day 2? That competition has day 1 not count at all to finals... but the placements (based on performance and execution) doesnt throw any curve balls. Why? Because reverse order (the genius of all this) organizes the teams into a mostly appropriate order. As well (and I have been on both sides with a team not capable of winning and a team destroying the field) it is in the best interest of the athletes to feel from day 1 to day 2 that a lot of 'action' can still happen. I have had the team that is so consistent that no one can catch up and all they have to do is just 'hit'. I think it is HARDER to bring what you have and hit day 2 when it counts 75 percent and still win. It breeds more competition, keeps it exciting. Who wants a guaranteed win?

As for changing panels I only think it is appropriate once we have a universal scoresheet.

I want to see the BEST team win. A team that can hit their routine EVERYTIME they take the floor should be the winner. (Look I dont mean hit their routine as a team comes in with a watered down routine should win just because they hit their stunts). I mean a routine that has all of the elements and it is clean, nminimal deductions, difficulty and hits solid all around puts that on the floor both days should beat a team that has a horrible routine on day one and then a great routine on day 2. In my opinion the team that has it all and could hit it both days should win. Why should the day 2 team win over the day one team. If one team gets the same score on day one that the other team gets on day 2 and visa versa why should the team that got the better score on day two prevail. Just another way to look it.
 
I want to see the BEST team win. A team that can hit their routine EVERYTIME they take the floor should be the winner. (Look I dont mean hit their routine as a team comes in with a watered down routine should win just because they hit their stunts). I mean a routine that has all of the elements and it is clean, nminimal deductions, difficulty and hits solid all around puts that on the floor both days should beat a team that has a horrible routine on day one and then a great routine on day 2. In my opinion the team that has it all and could hit it both days should win. Why should the day 2 team win over the day one team. If one team gets the same score on day one that the other team gets on day 2 and visa versa why should the team that got the better score on day two prevail. Just another way to look it.

But get down to the nitty gritty. first and second place are decided by .001 of a point.

Team one has strong difficulty and no deductions both days. Team two MUCH stronger difficulty, but a stunt fall day one and absolutely flawless day 2.

Tell me the differences of how that would pan out at 25/75 and 50/50?
 
I don't think you understand how scoring works at Varsity. Your difficulty score in general doesn't have a lot of play for what you attempt and bomb. You can do squad double ups and drop two (getting deductions and hampering your execution score) but it won't drop you out of range. Level 5 range is 90-100 (though level 5 is weird because of baskets and restricted so more like 86 to 100). You simply can't get enough deductions to get to 75. They'd stop counting them (we know this personally.... Purple tried to one year).

Find an actual mathematical example of your point and that will help. let me give a mathematical counter example. Platinum two year ago at NCA had a killer day 1 and was in the lead by a ton. For day two it was very rough.... But they still won (by hundredths). Even in the extreme counter example (bad day on day 2 but good on day 1) a team can cheat the math and find a way to win and not be consistent. But that's sports.

Again I was just trying to make an example of mathamatics and how numbers can add up. Ok, I do understand and thats why I am arguing the point. You just proved my point. But in your opinion should platinum have won and if it was 50/50 would they have? Thats my point. Now I dont know of the situation you are talking about except for what you told me but from what you are saying it seems to me that you are making a point with how the scoring works (or doesnt work as 20/80) but are you saying you agree? Do you think that team XYZ that came in below platimun shiuld have come in below them? In your opinion??
 
But get down to the nitty gritty. first and second place are decided by .001 of a point.

Team one has strong difficulty and no deductions both days. Team two MUCH stronger difficulty, but a stunt fall day one and absolutely flawless day 2.

Tell me the differences of how that would pan out at 25/75 and 50/50?

Probably team 2 would win with either 25/75 or 50/50 which is fine with me. but Im saying its more likely with a 25/75 split that a team that does really bad on day one and hits really clean day 2 could prevail over a team that is VERY good both days. Thsi is the situation you will avoid by going 50/50. You will not avoid that situation going 25/75. The norm "2 great teams compete" and one has an ok day and a great day and one has 2 very good days could go either way if you use 50/50. But 25/75 it could potentially go in favor of the day 2 great day tea. Its just more full proof to use 50/50. Less room for error. We could argue this all night. Looks like you and I are willing to. LOL. This is actually fantastic becasue I am really trying to give the 25/75 thing a chance, but no matter how people try to explain the good in it I am a mathimatical freak so I am having a hard time seeing it. 50/50 makes so much senes to me just like 25/75 make so much sense to you.
 
Again I was just trying to make an example of mathamatics and how numbers can add up. Ok, I do understand and thats why I am arguing the point. You just proved my point. But in your opinion should platinum have won and if it was 50/50 would they have? Thats my point. Now I dont know of the situation you are talking about except for what you told me but from what you are saying it seems to me that you are making a point with how the scoring works (or doesnt work as 20/80) but are you saying you agree? Do you think that team XYZ that came in below platimun shiuld have come in below them? In your opinion??

Platinum hit day one (the 20% day) but not day two (the 80%). 50/50 would have actually made their win even larger. The point is 50 / 50 doesn't reward consistency as much as you think, it just has the appearance of it.

50 / 50 comps are going to reward the teams more with a better placement in the oration as well. A team going 10th out of 20 has a better shot of getting scored the most accurately both days. The team going 2nd day one but 19th day two can be hindered by that early day 1 score. Assuming everyone hits mind you. With a reverse order 25 / 75 the stronger teams go near the end assuring the more difficult stuff gets rewarded. it doesn't guarantee a win, yu still have to hit.
 
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