All-Star Should Level 6 Exist?

beautyy4cheerr said:

YES.

Level 6 should stay. It wouldn't make any sense to get rid of it. I'm not in the mood to type my thesis paper on why it should stay.

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Well, then, you convinced me. Especially since "YES" was all in caps.

ACEDAD said:

Well, then, you convinced me. Especially since "YES" was all in caps.

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i didn't know the name of the thread was "Convince ACEDAD Why Level 6 Should Exist", I actually thought it was "Should Level 6 Exist"... strange. maybe that's why I thought the word "YES" would be a logical answer to that question... hmm...

What about athletes that are entering the sport at a later age? Especially for the guys...

beautyy4cheerr said:

i didn't know the name of the thread was "Convince ACEDAD Why Level 6 Should Exist", I actually thought it was "Should Level 6 Exist"... strange. maybe that's why I thought the word "YES" would be a logical answer to that question... hmm...

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If it was a poll, a single word answer would be best. This tends to be more like a high school debate where people take sides and try to defend their position. You seemed pretty adament about this in the other thread, so I just expected a little more.

ACEDAD said:

But the main differences in level 6 (flipping baskets & 2.5 pyramids) generally take the strength that kids will get at 18+ rather than earlier.

Obviously it's not impossible for 14-18 year old kids to do the skills but is that ability widespread enough to have it be a legitmate level for the high school all stars?

And is it worth the risks to find out?

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Still hold off level 6 for college kids, but start teaching the ones with the skill earlier. Not so early, to where we have 12 year olds doing 2.5 pyramids, but those 15, 16,17, 18 year olds who want to do college cheer. The earlier they learn, the longer the have to make those skills perfect, the less scary level 6 routines we have.

I love L6 as it was the only avenue I had to continue competitive cheerleading after high school.If there was an Open L4 option for 17+, I would have been a lot more comfortable there, as it was a huge adjustment to go from high school cheer to L6 allstar.

I'm now Director/Coach of a cheer program here in Canada which has a very small allstar cheer community. My coach XtremeWpg and I know what our limitations are as coaches and bring in other people to help coach a skill that we don't know how to do. I think a huge aspect of being a coach is to know what my limitations/ability is to coach a skill to any athlete. I recognize the safety and liability issues of teaching skills I have zero business attempting, and have planned my programs accordingly. To add, I'm constantly looking for ways to broaden my skills so that I can coach my athletes to the best of my ability.

Allstar cheerleading is evolving and I would hate to see L6 disappear.

armycheermom said:

Still hold off level 6 for college kids, but start teaching the ones with the skill earlier. Not so early, to where we have 12 year olds doing 2.5 pyramids, but those 15, 16,17, 18 year olds who want to do college cheer. The earlier they learn, the longer the have to make those skills perfect, the less scary level 6 routines we have.

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That is another thing to keep in mind. We talk about allowing level 5 to do flipping baskets, or rewind ups etc. But how many of these level 5 kids are under 13 or 14? My guess is half or more of the flyers are and then when you get to youth and junior teams the bases are that young as well. I think kids this young if taught right would be able to do the skills, but I don't think they should be allowed to!

AScheer said:

That is another thing to keep in mind. We talk about allowing level 5 to do flipping baskets, or rewind ups etc. But how many of these level 5 kids are under 13 or 14? My guess is half or more of the flyers are and then when you get to youth and junior teams the bases are that young as well. I think kids this young if taught right would be able to do the skills, but I don't think they should be allowed to!

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I don't believe level 5 should have twisting baskets or rewinds ups. I say start teaching kids earlier, but by early I mean, 15+. I do not want to see youth, junior and young senior age kids doing level 6 skills.

armycheermom said:

I don't believe level 5 should have twisting baskets or rewinds ups. I say start teaching kids earlier, but by early I mean, 15+. I do not want to see youth, junior and young senior age kids doing level 6 skills.

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Sorry not necessarily addressing that to you! I for one was for level 5 adding a few level 6 skills, your post just brought up the younger kids that I myself, and probably others didn't think about also being level 5 and therefore able to do these skills we are proposing being added!

NEliteSteven said:

bahaha, we do that. But thankfully 90% of the people on the team have cheered at a fairly competitive college.

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Thats again an exception. If you can pull together some TRUE college cheerleaders last minute great. I should have been more specific. Im talking about kids that only cheered up to Level 3/4 and either didnt cheer in college or go to a competitive college that are being coached by coaches who competed level 6 or college. YIKES!

I'm definitely on the fence about level 6. While its great to watch talented level 6 teams, I'm sure we've all had our fair share of watching some downright SCARY routines. This level, I feel, is very dangerous (but then again, cheerleading is a dangerous sport as a whole.)

I wonder if there was some master clinic that athletes could attend to learn level 6 skills if that would be the way to go. Maybe some invitational event (that was psycho-mom who wants her daughter at 'X' cheer school isn't shoving her daughter in when she's not ready), for level 4/5 athletes 15+. Just trying to throw out an idea..the few level 5 athletes who actually go on to cheer level 6 all seem to end up at the same Top 5 schools anyway, so I don't see how keeping level 6 will magically fix itself.

XtremeWpg said:

If I had the option of Open 4 for my older athletes, I'd take it. But for now, Level 6 is where my older athletes go. We have no right to be in level 5 at a national or international competition. We'd get killed because it's such a highly competative level. Level 6 has such small competition in it, that we're all sort of rocking the level 4 skills anyway (in Canada at least, with a few exceptions). Until the USASF gives us the option to be Open 4, Open 6 is where we stay.

I know for myself, I have no business teaching a full basket toss, and I never would. I guess I'm one of the ones who knows their own limits and respects the limits of my athletes as well. It also depends on how competative you're looking to be. My IO6 isn't looking for a worlds bid, they're looking to stay in cheer a little longer after high school. We basically compete as level 4 with a few 2.5 pyramids tossed in. And I'm happy with it. But I'm 100% for Open 4!!

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My coaches are doing this with a team at my gym. The team wants to go to worlds for the experience but, apart from a handfull of athletes that can tumble through to a full, they are squarely level 4 (some even 2/3). They can throw basic level 6 stunts allgirl style using three boys and a small flyer, back tuck baskets (although only three of the flyers have a kick full and none can kick double), but flipping/twisting transitions into pyramids/stunts are a long way off and frankly, quite unsafe until the flyers get more body awareness and bases learn how to read the flyers' bodies. So, would they be better at level 4? Definitely. Would the coaches ever compromise their safety? Never, not even a chance. The team really wants to go to worlds, it's unlikely they can get a bid at level 5 but there's a chance for them with a basic level 6 routine (because they'd be the ONLY level 6 in the country). It rubs me the wrong way in terms of fairness, should you really get to go to worlds because you want to, not because you are the best? In my opinion, no. But I also have so much respect for these coaches and know they only want to give their athletes every opportunity to love and experience the sport.

RulesGuy
I would love to see the day when i5 is globally considered a division one should enter if they have a more well rounded team...a score sheet that balances stunting and tumbling and i6 with more of an emphasis on stunting. I feel that would appease both arguments that constantly arise: i5 athletes have worked so hard for years on tumbling for it not to get equal weight and those who say they've been disadvantaged by not having the tools to advance at tumbling...well advance in stunts.

armycheermom said:

I have a question. Could we get more qualified coaches for level 6, if world bids were given at college nationals?

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I don't think that would be a selling point for college coaches, from what I understand eventhough many college coaches have cheered or coached allstars, a lot have not and do not have any intrest in it or they would be coaching already. You would be surprised how different the two disciplines are. College cheer is a totally different bird in my eyes, from the style of routines (uca especially ) to the way they wear their bows and unis. I just don't think offering a bid to worlds would do anything. I feel like their worlds is College Nationals, you know what I mean?