All-Star Should Level 6 Exist?

BowsnBling said:

I don't think that would be a selling point for college coaches, from what I understand eventhough many college coaches have cheered or coached allstars, a lot have not and do not have any intrest in it or they would be coaching already. You would be surprised how different the two disciplines are. College cheer is a totally different bird in my eyes, from the style of routines (uca especially ) to the way they wear their bows and unis. I just don't think offering a bid to worlds would do anything. I feel like their worlds is College Nationals, you know what I mean?

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I did not know how different allstar and college cheer are. It does make sense that college coaches are doing what they have am interest in...Thanks for explaining all of that! I know very little about college cheer.

jump! said:

What about athletes that are entering the sport at a later age? Especially for the guys...

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Just because they are starting the sport later should not give them an automatic pass through all the levels. I wouldn't want some guy that has never cheered in his life to catch me in a flipping/twisting basket as his 'first stunt'. No thanks, basics are needed no matter what age you start.

BowsnBling said:

Just because they are starting the sport later should not give them an automatic pass through all the levels. I wouldn't want some guy that has never cheered in his life to catch me in a flipping/twisting basket as his 'first stunt'. No thanks, basics are needed no matter what age you start.

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Welp, that's not what I meant at all. Let's take myself for example. I'm 6'2, 225 pounds, and I've played football for my entire life. I started to become obsessed with all star cheerleading during my senior year of high school. So, I go into college, and what opportunities are there for me to do all star cheer? LEVELS 5 AND 6. Do I have a double full? Not yet. So the only real option I have is to be on a level six open coed team.

OF COURSE I WOULD HAVE TO LEARN THE BASICS. It wouldn't even be logical for someone to base a flipping/twisting basket as their "first basket". You took what I said and stretched it halfway across the earth. But as far as learning the basics of stunting, i think they're a lot easier to learn when you are older and stronger rather than younger and weaker.

I know on my old team (here at school) a few girls were former gymnasts and had never cheered before. They could tumble, and well, but they had never stunted before. They learned quickly, but it's definitely a little scary in the beginning. I think level 6 should definitely still exist, and I kinda wish college teams went to worlds...mostly because i would have loved to go to worlds.

ACEDAD said:

If it was a poll, a single word answer would be best. This tends to be more like a high school debate where people take sides and try to defend their position. You seemed pretty adament about this in the other thread, so I just expected a little more.

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i'm not the only person who didn't put a detailed explanation as to why i think it should stay.

and like i said, in this moment i don't feel like typing that much on this topic. especially when i can't believe that this is even a debate.

there is a reason why i didn't reply to you in the last thread...

BowsnBling said:

I don't think that would be a selling point for college coaches, from what I understand eventhough many college coaches have cheered or coached allstars, a lot have not and do not have any intrest in it or they would be coaching already. You would be surprised how different the two disciplines are. College cheer is a totally different bird in my eyes, from the style of routines (uca especially ) to the way they wear their bows and unis. I just don't think offering a bid to worlds would do anything. I feel like their worlds is College Nationals, you know what I mean?

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Theres also the fact that by the time worlds comes around most colleges have either had tryouts for next season already or are in the process! Completely different seasons!

beautyy4cheerr said:

i'm not the only person who didn't put a detailed explanation as to why i think it should stay.

and like i said, in this moment i don't feel like typing that much on this topic. especially when i can't believe that this is even a debate.

there is a reason why i didn't reply to you in the last thread...

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dont expect to be respected in your answer if you can't back it up.

I have been thinking about this for the past few days. Looking at how college athletes in cheerleading transfer a lot I think the really only training ground for Level 6 is within college. Certain colleges will take chances on athletes and act 'kinda' like farm teams. Now, that doesn't mean farm teams are not good and do not compete with each other, but there are plenty of schools you go to BEFORE you go to the big schools. We usually call when someone goes to another college a Ring Chaser. But the more I think about it there is no other way for a college boy or girl to get the experience needed. They have to go to a school, learn, and then transfer to a bigger school. So, it has led me to this.

I would like for Level 6 to keep existing. I appreciate all the stuff that goes on and what happens.

BUT

If there isn't a good and proper way defined to get to level 6 I don't think it should exist. There needs to be a system to develop all the athletes and coaches and competition so that level 6 is as safe as the other levels and it is as competitive.

I think making international Open divisions match NCA college division sizes (20), adding Open 4 for competition, and a special certification required for anyone that wants to have and coach a level 6 team at their gym.

AScheer said:

Theres also the fact that by the time worlds comes around most colleges have either had tryouts for next season already or are in the process! Completely different seasons!

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Worlds is only a few weeks after NCA College Nationals - not that different. UCA though, absolutely.

I never did all-star until I was in college and joined an open team - after I did a few years of college cheerleading. At the time I didn't care about Worlds at all, and it annoyed me when some girls on my team who had done all-stars their whole lives cared more about their all-star team going to worlds than our college team going to Daytona. Even after competing at Worlds, I still prefer college nationals. It really is a whole different beast.

I agree with Kingston that there needs to be better certification for coaches. My coaches/gym owners all came from college cheerleading, they know how to coach and teach level 6 skills and are huge about safety. We don't try new baskets/pyramids without tons of spots and when we're free stunting, even doing basic stunts, we makes sure to have spots. Even on the warmup mat at competitions we have spots for our pyramids and baskets. That's just a big emphasis we have on our team that you catch your girl no matter what. But I've been on open teams where that's not the case. I agree that adding an Open 4 team is probably the safer option for those teams that don't know how to coach or teach level 6 skills, but I don't think we should cut level 6. I may be selfish, but I say that as someone who never did all-stars until level 6. I have no interest in international 5 - partly because I can't do any of those baskets, ha, they were never big when I was in high school. They're just two very different beasts and if it came down to doing open 4/5 or not cheering at all - I would choose to not cheer to be honest.

Level 6... Oh my, how it frustrates me.

Our gym has a coed level 6 team. Do we do it because we want a Worlds bid? Definitely not. If there was an open level 3/4 division, that would probably be awesome for our team. I coach this team and will admit, I probably should not be doing that as I did not cheer in college. Every level 6 stunt that is put in the air is the most basic stunt that can be put up there. Our partner stunts are simple. Our coed stunts, again, simple.

Would I be sad to see level 6 go? Yes. I would miss those very few amazing level 6 teams that are out there. But I wont miss going to competition and reading the score sheets saying "add more level appropriate skills." Don't you think if I had standing fulls, full baskets, amazing level 6 stunts, etc. I would put them in there? I don't go to practices and tell the team "lets just throw two back tuck baskets and a few round off handsprings for competition. The 3 fulls we have are plenty." We have some talented members, but hot diggity are they lazy! When I have a full practice I am completely shocked (even though they talk more than the tiny team).

I feel as though the few level 6 teams that could and should truly exist could all just send in tapes of themselves and go to worlds that way, then create Open 4 for everybody else. Certify that the coaches SHOULD be coaching it in the first place, and I feel like a lot more people would be better off.

KRECCheer said:

Level 6... Oh my, how it frustrates me.

Our gym has a coed level 6 team. Do we do it because we want a Worlds bid? Definitely not. If there was an open level 3/4 division, that would probably be awesome for our team. I coach this team and will admit, I probably should not be doing that as I did not cheer in college. Every level 6 stunt that is put in the air is the most basic stunt that can be put up there. Our partner stunts are simple. Our coed stunts, again, simple.

Would I be sad to see level 6 go? Yes. I would miss those very few amazing level 6 teams that are out there. But I wont miss going to competition and reading the score sheets saying "add more level appropriate skills." Don't you think if I had standing fulls, full baskets, amazing level 6 stunts, etc. I would put them in there? I don't go to practices and tell the team "lets just throw two back tuck baskets and a few round off handsprings for competition. The 3 fulls we have are plenty." We have some talented members, but hot diggity are they lazy! When I have a full practice I am completely shocked (even though they talk more than the tiny team).

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The hardest divisions to coach in cheerleading are Open Teams and Tiny teams. Hands down.

kristenthegreat said:

I feel as though the few level 6 teams that could and should truly exist could all just send in tapes of themselves and go to worlds that way, then create Open 4 for everybody else. Certify that the coaches SHOULD be coaching it in the first place, and I feel like a lot more people would be better off.

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Well what about the rest of the season? Last year we got a bid our first competition and didn't compete again until Worlds, but this year we competed at 3 competitions and got our bid last night - I definitely preferred actually having a competition season. I love Worlds, but I don't want that to be the first and only time I get out on the mat all year. Been there/done that in college, and it kind of sucks.

kingston said:

The hardest divisions to coach in cheerleading are Open Teams and Tiny teams. Hands down.

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Yes! When we hit our routine this weekend, my mother was so happy. I believe she said "My babies just hit everything." Our youngest is 18. And one of our oldest asked "who is getting the trophy?" Wowsers.

KRECCheer said:

Yes! When we hit our routine this weekend, my mother was so happy. I believe she said "My babies just hit everything." Our youngest is 18. And one of our oldest asked "who is getting the trophy?" Wowsers.

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Coaches also make some of the worst coachable athletes. No matter how strong and confident a coach is, as an athlete being coached again is very humbling because you no longer have a voice... you just have to 'shut up and do your job'. As an athlete a coach has to accept that the direction of the team isn't always perfect and have you to work through problems. Coaches usually want them fixed instantly instead of working through it. As well, in general, coaches believe they are more talented than they are and don't want to practice as hard. I always find it interesting the internal fight they must have because coaches as athletes aren't dumb. They know they have go through the blood/sweat/tears to get to where they want, but in all honestly they just don't want to.