All-Star Should Usasf Limit Bids/people?

rosebud said:

Another problem with charging for specific seats is will it by like concert tickets that as soon as they go on sale it seems like they sell out in 10 minutes and then if you want one you need to go through a ticket broker and pay 4 times the price?

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I agree that's a problem. I would never want to see assigned seating, and I think it's fine to sell more tickets than available seats (within reason, of course.). This isn't a concert that's done in 2-3 hours--- It's an all-day competition where the heavy majority of spectators leave for significant chunks of time. The place would be half empty if you limited ticket sales to the number of seats in the arena. Besides, if the competition was ever moved out of the Milkhouse, hopefully the place would be big enough where overcrowding really wouldn't be an issue.

Did anyone ever think Varsity may be on the "Disney" family plan? LOL.

Knowcheering said:

That wouldn't do anything besides punish cheerleaders for the venue being too small and the schedule poorly though out. Limiting bids any further won't magically shrink a crowd size down to anywhere near 5000. And if you don't want an At-Large bid cheerleader taking up a precious seat in the Milkhouse, I can only imagine how you feel about a high school cheerleader from Orlando, or a Level 1 cheerleader there with her mother for fun, or a college student who stopped cheering four years ago who are there taking up seats.

Was the baseball field really not big enough to have 10 teams stand on it? Why even move Awards there? If it was because they were running so far behind, what's another 15 minutes for Awards? And if it was in an effort to get some people to clear out of the Milkhouse, they were going to start leaving after that Awards anyway because International was starting.

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I was never outside for Awards, so I don't know enough to comment on the decision to have 3 vs 10 except I know there were only certain sections that we were permitted to have athletes stand on.

In terms of saving 15 minutes--when you are an hour behind, 15 minutes IS a very long time and 15 minutes x 2 or 3 award ceremonies was crucial to us ever getting back on schedule.

Moving the awards was the best way to get movement in HP. Given the environment, people were not budging. The decision to move Awards is why we were able to open the front doors again when we did.

The event was running behind because instead of putting the teams on the floor they decided to try and distract the crowd with the "wave" and sing alongs to JB, Miley Cyrus, etc.... most of us were going to leave after awards anyways.

I was one of the Mom's that couldn't get in to see my daughter compete. Her performance would be the last of a long, successful All Star career as she is graduating this year. The thought of missing her last performance brought me to tears. I can't tell you how incredibly scary the entire experience was. People were talking about charging the doors. Other people in the crowd had to subdue them as we all knew how dangerous it would have been for all of us. There would have been certain injuries, possibly even deaths. People were passing out and the Orlando police finally came. There was a CEA mom pounding on the door and sobbing that her daughter had just won Worlds and she couldn't get in to celebrate with her. Can you imagine?? It wasn't until the crowd started chanting "let her in" that they finally opened the door. I am thankful that there was finally a plan to get all of us in. Finally, I heard that some of the event producers spoke out on behalf of the parents and told USASF to do something to get us in. If that is true, a big Thank You!

Okay folks, the petition is up - go sign it.

Sadly, moving awards to the dirt on the baseball field was actually the least bad of all of the choices they had available to them at that point. They have actually done about as good a job as possible making the tiny, abysmal, and woefully inadequate venues work as well as they do.

You can nit-pick details about what would get a few more open seats here and there, but until it gets moved to a world-class facility befitting the event, Worlds will remain a logistical nightmare.

ASCheerMan said:

Hey Guys, a couple of general responses to comments I read throughout this thread.

3. Feel free to write letters to the USASF re: seating on Sunday. I encourage you to do your part. BUT rest assures that we are COMPLETELY aware of the situation as we had to deal with the 'crisis' firsthand. Your letters will be effective, but the memory of getting screamed at, threatened, and verbally abused by passionate spectators will be the most effective means of persuading us to resolved it in 2013.

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But weren't you completely aware of the situation last year as well? I'm not really sure it's fair to call it a "crisis" - since to me that word implies that you didn't know it was coming. I'm fairly certain anyone could have predicted this. I'm sure if you pull up the threads on here from the Monday after Worlds last year you'll see almost exactly the same threads about the size of the venue. Sounds like this year may have been worse, but certainly not a complete shock. There were people last year who couldn't get in as well.

I'm not trying to jump on you alone since you bravely came on here and said "we" so you could take the heat. Just trying to say that I think the majority of us are getting tired of the USASF stance of "We had no idea this would happen", as this is the second time in 6 weeks we've heard this (the other time would be after the rules were posted and they claimed that they were "shocked" at the reaction).

I've been pretty vocal on this (and most things ) but that's because this is something I actually DO know about. I don't know a lot about cheer, but I do know about event planning on a large scale. The number one thing you worry about is crowd control. You don't keep selling tickets to an event that is already closed down by the fire marshall (or at least if you do, then feel safe in knowing that we will assume you are only worried about "rolling in cash" and not anyone's safety). You don't hold the event in a venue that seats 1/3 the number of people you sold tickets to, just assuming that those people won't stay all day.

You don't hold an event that involves people's children and not plan a way to GUARANTEE that those people will get in. Two things you don't mess with - people's kids and people's money. This weekend messed with both. Not. Good.

I am absolutely horrified that the USASF and Disney didn't have a better grasp on this after last year. You had a year to figure something out. As I said earlier, perhaps a little more time should be devoted to making sure people don't die in an angry stampede and a little less time on whether the boys are too theatrical and the bows are too big.


***And for the record, you can let the "safety experts" at USASF know...being trampled by a couple thousand people is significantly more dangerous than a standing double.

justcheer5678 said:

The event was running behind because instead of putting the teams on the floor they decided to try and distract the crowd with the "wave" and sing alongs to JB, Miley Cyrus, etc.... most of us were going to leave after awards anyways.

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What was said was they wouldn't bring any teams out on the floor until people cleared out to let the next group of people in. So, the delay was because they were forcing their hand and it didn't work.

It also sucks for the kids who performed and got shuttled out not getting to watch the rest of the teams in the division they were competing in/against. So, a 5th place team has no idea why they stayed where they were or didn't move up because they couldn't see the 1st through 4th place teams compete. Sunday Morning was just a huge bust!!

So sad for Orange and Cheetah's who won Worlds on the baseball field!

Just-a-Mom said:

But weren't you completely aware of the situation last year as well? I'm not really sure it's fair to call it a "crisis" - since to me that word implies that you didn't know it was coming. I'm fairly certain anyone could have predicted this. I'm sure if you pull up the threads on here from the Monday after Worlds last year you'll see almost exactly the same threads about the size of the venue. Sounds like this year may have been worse, but certainly not a complete shock. There were people last year who couldn't get in as well.

I'm not trying to jump on you alone since you bravely came on here and said "we" so you could take the heat. Just trying to say that I think the majority of us are getting tired of the USASF stance of "We had no idea this would happen", as this is the second time in 6 weeks we've heard this (the other time would be after the rules were posted and they claimed that they were "shocked" at the reaction).

I've been pretty vocal on this (and most things ) but that's because this is something I actually DO know about. I don't know a lot about cheer, but I do know about event planning on a large scale. The number one thing you worry about is crowd control. You don't keep selling tickets to an event that is already closed down by the fire marshall (or at least if you do, then feel safe in knowing that we will assume you are only worried about "rolling in cash" and not anyone's safety). You don't hold the event in a venue that seats 1/3 the number of people you sold tickets to, just assuming that those people won't stay all day.

You don't hold an event that involves people's children and not plan a way to GUARANTEE that those people will get in. Two things you don't mess with - people's kids and people's money. This weekend messed with both. Not. Good.

I am absolutely horrified that the USASF and Disney didn't have a better grasp on this after last year. You had a year to figure something out. As I said earlier, perhaps a little more time should be devoted to making sure people don't die in an angry stampede and a little less time on whether the boys are too theatrical and the bows are too big.


***And for the record, you can let the "safety experts" at USASF know...being trampled by a couple thousand people is significantly more dangerous than a standing double.

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There were several changes made since last year that pointed the finger at traffic being more manageable. Among them, Large Senior was moved to first thing in the morning, with back to back judging and an Awards Ceremony to move the crowd out before the rest of the event started. Also, only 10 teams advanced to finals in every division. Those two items (and others) were expected to alleviate the traffic jam. Now, before 10 of you "quote" my post and reply with: WELL, YOU GOT IT WRONG, I'll be the one to say it: we overestimated the impact these adjustments would have on the event and underestimated the continued growth of all star cheer as a spectator sport.

The delay in resuming competition was so that we had the proper security in place to resume traffic flow safely and so we would have ample opportunity to communicate the Back Up Special Viewing plan to everyone, especially spectators. And we would never intentionally resume that event knowing that a team had spectators unable to watch their kids perform.

And for the record, I appreciate the opening disclaimer that you aren't trying to jump on me alone. And I appreciate the positive dialogue this medium fosters. But if I began to sense that posts are being used as a chance to re-air every issue people have with the USASF and that I have to defend every decision in the industry mentioned in one posting, life away from Fierceboard becomes more attractive. No, the focus given to the Image Policy by the NAB Image Subcomittee is NOT the reason the Worlds Event Staff fell a bit short in their pre-planning. And no Safety Judge thinks double fulls are more dangerous than trampling over spectators. You have every right and SHOULD voice your concerns whenever you see fit. Please know I respect that and I hope you will write an official letter to the USASF expressing your concerns. I'm just not going to show up to a party where I'm being 'jumped on' as opposed to a party where my insight is valued, the respect of opinions is mutual, and the conversation is productive.

ASCheerMan said:

There were several changes made since last year that pointed the finger at traffic being more manageable. Among them, Large Senior was moved to first thing in the morning, with back to back judging and an Awards Ceremony to move the crowd out before the rest of the event started. Also, only 10 teams advanced to finals in every division. Those two items (and others) were expected to alleviate the traffic jam. Now, before 10 of you "quote" my post and reply with: WELL, YOU GOT IT WRONG, I'll be the one to say it: we overestimated the impact these adjustments would have on the event and underestimated the continued growth of all star cheer as a spectator sport.

The delay in resuming competition was so that we had the proper security in place to resume traffic flow safely and so we would have ample opportunity to communicate the Back Up Special Viewing plan to everyone, especially spectators. And we would never intentionally resume that event knowing that a team had spectators unable to watch their kids perform.

And for the record, I appreciate the opening disclaimer that you aren't trying to jump on me alone. And I appreciate the positive dialogue this medium fosters. But if I began to sense that posts are being used as a chance to re-air every issue people have with the USASF and that I have to defend every decision in the industry mentioned in one posting, life away from Fierceboard becomes more attractive. No, the focus given to the Image Policy by the NAB Image Subcomittee is NOT the reason the Worlds Event Staff fell a bit short in their pre-planning. And no Safety Judge thinks double fulls are more dangerous than trampling over spectators. You have every right and SHOULD voice your concerns whenever you see fit. Please know I respect that and I hope you will write an official letter to the USASF expressing your concerns. I'm just not going to show up to a party where I'm being 'jumped on' as opposed to a party where my insight is valued, the respect of opinions is mutual, and the conversation is productive.

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Ok I just typed out this nice reply to this and my phone kicked me off the Internet so it's lost. Sigh. I'll retype it in the morning. But I want to at least get in the nicest part. I didn't mean to be so snarky. I, like many people, am really frustrated right now. I do appreciate your response which actually addressed a lot of my thoughts. So thank you for that.

Why did you think the crowd would leave after packing the house with large senior?? especially with NO reason to leave when sm sr and coed were sched. to start next??? I could understand you thinking the crowd would leave if there were no one else to compete for a few hours but... really??

Bystander said:

Why did you think the crowd would leave after packing the house with large senior?? especially with NO reason to leave when sm sr and coed were sched. to start next??? I could understand you thinking the crowd would leave if there were no one else to compete for a few hours but... really??

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We didn't expect the crowd to leave, we expected them to never show up because the division would be too early for them to make their way to the venue, leaving mainly immediate family members to finish awards and leave their seats to spend time with their athletes. We also had competition beginning in Jostens which 'theoretically,' meant half of the spectators needed to move venues to continue supporting their program. .
As I stated, we underestimated the growth of all star cheer as a spectator sport and a die hard cheernerd/spectator/Fierce Board maven would be crazy to give up those seats at that time of the day.

I actually said that to people in line. "I'll bet they thought nobody in their right mind would get up at the crack of dawn for this" LOL At least I was right.

I have to respect that they at least thought about it and tried to do something proactive........however, the power's that be also have to imagine what it would be like to be a parent standing outside with multiple people telling you that nobody goes in until somebody comes out and they don't care that your child will compete without you watching. We could clearly see that nobody was coming out. Period. Where did that leave us? The answer was watching the jumbotrons.....that was unacceptable.

Although there was some consideration for the issues from 2011, it seems that the USASF has again unilaterally made a decision that significantly impacts the sport without the input from those involved. I am a relatively new cheermom and I think I could have told you that the planned solution would be ineffective. Did they seek any input from gyms or athletes or parent organizations? A quick online survey could have provided valuable information that might have provided some insight to prevent this.