All-Star Varsity Scoring Update: Squad Tumbling - 75% = 100%

NJ Coach said:

That's what we were thinking. While 75% would max out the difficulty, 100% might bump up the overall impression.

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I guess what I don't like about that is that instead of rewarding the difference between 75% and 100% objectively, it moves it to the subjective part of the score sheet (i.e. less transparency) IMO

There seems to be a lot of discussion in the industry about why kids are quitting cheer. In fact, I would say this is the number one buzz topic out there right now, AND the number 1 reason behind all the tumbling restrictions that were just implemented. I participated in a parent focus group at NCA with about 30 other parents or so from all different types of gyms, and the very first topic we discussed as a group was: why are kids leaving all star cheerleading.

The following is NOT my opinion, it is a summary of what was discussed at the focus group. The general consensus of leaders, as it was explained to us, is that kids are leaving cheer because it has become too hard. The amount of skill that is required to even be competitive has become so difficult that athletes are no longer seeing the sport in the same light they once did, it is no longer fun, but extremely hard. Some athletes are so discouraged that they will never reach the top levels, because the top levels have jumped up so much just in the last few years, so they just quit. When thinking about everything that a level 5 athlete has to accomplish in 2:30, it is so overwhelming now that the fun has been lost from the routine itself. Kids who can tumble are often asked to tumble 3-5 times in that 2:30. Just think: standing full, standing to a double pass, standing to a full pass, individual running pass, squad pass. Also, elite level stunting is now required to max out, and not just one, but more than one elite skill (sometimes we see 4-5) in one sequence. Not to mention most teams are putting up 2 sequences now. Also, 2 jump sequences are now required to max out. We see teams jumping 4 and 5 times just in one sequence. Add to that pyramids which are crazier than ever, a variety of baskets (required now so some kids are basketing 2-3 time in 2:30), and dance. When you read twitter, you hear comments about how scared kids are just to go full out at practice.

The following IS my opinion: the industry is trying to find ways to make top level cheerleading more attainable to more people so they do not get discouraged and leave the sport. Additionally, they are trying to find ways to restrict tumbling so that the tumblers are not required to tumble so much. I see where they are coming from with this scoring update, even though I disagree with it.

I challenge the industry to view the scoresheet another way instead of all this focus on tumbling. Perhaps, we should be scaling back across the board on the scoresheet instead of continually hammering tumbling. How about only allowing 1 jump sequence max with 3 of your teams best jumps? Or what about no longer requiring a variety of baskets? How about only 1 stunt sequence allowed? Can we please get rid of squad tumbling that forces half the team to tumble twice? That just freed up 4 eight counts of your routine for clean transitions, actually choreography and motions, something we hardly see anymore! It would bring the focus back to execution, while leaving room for the difficulty to be rewarded I understand the concern, but I dont think the solution is addressing the big picture as well as it could.

Oh, and just FYI, the number one reason parents in the focus group said kids were leaving cheer was COST.

redsmom said:

I guess what I don't like about that is that instead of rewarding the difference between 75% and 100% objectively, it moves it to the subjective part of the score sheet (i.e. less transparency) IMO

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I don't disagree. Just hoping there's somewhere in the scoresheet that will reward that team with full tumbling.

Of course it is cost as level 5 mom stated. We have just come through a terrible recession and the economy is not out of the woods yet. I do not believe for one minute that level 5 athletes do not see it as "fun". Individuals driven to reach the upper echelons of a sport are probably cut from a different cloth. Their drive and motivation are probably different.

More leveling of the playing field...............

Varsity just keeps on adding to the list of reasons we don't like them.

JumpingJackFlash said:

More leveling of the playing field...............

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In esssence, yes. But I do not think the intent is to level the playing field so gyms who aren't as good will now be able to beat the best team. I think the intent is to preserve the athletes we have. The example given to me was gymnastics. When you are in the lower levels there are an abundance of gymnasts. But once you hit level 9 and 10 each gym has maybe a few athletes. Why is that? because the gymnastics gets so hard that kids can't hang, or aren't willing to put in time required to be able to hang. They don't want this to happen to cheer. In order to have a sport, we have to make it accessible.

Again, this is just how it was explained me to me, not my opinion. I'm not defending anyone, just trying to help people understand the possible motive.

Level5Mom said:

In esssence, yes. But I do not think the intent is to level the playing field so gyms who aren't as good will now be able to beat the best team. I think the intent is to preserve the athletes we have. The example given to me was gymnastics. When you are in the lower levels there are an abundance of gymnasts. But once you hit level 9 and 10 each gym has maybe a few athletes. Why is that? because the gymnastics gets so hard that kids can't hang, or aren't willing to put in time required to be able to hang. They don't want this to happen to cheer. In order to have a sport, we have to make it accessible.

Again, this is just how it was explained me to me, not my opinion. I'm not defending anyone, just trying to help people understand the possible motive.

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Thank you for the explanation. But if you're not willing to put in the time to "hang", then maybe your not ready for level 5. It seems the other 75% has. As others have said, 75% is a "C".

Why doesn't gymnatics allow 25% of the level 9/10 gymnasts do less than whats required? Other sports have thrived on being the absolute best they can be, why can't cheer?

Thank you Level5Mom for the input about the group at NCA.

Here is my thing about that though, things get harder that is just how life is. You don't have a world full of elite gymnasts or ballerinas because the work gets harder and the perfection gets harder. I am sure tons of athletes leave their desired sports year after year because it just gets too hard to succeed in it and becomes too competitive. I know several athletes that end up stopping their baseball career right before they reach the time for allstar teams to be picked simply because it is so competitive to make one of those teams. These sports don't level the playing field because the sport is getting to hard for them.
Cheer is one of the few sports that have levels so that if the elite level is too hard then they can go to a lower one. It is a mindset for too many people that they have to be a level 5 athlete or it is the end of the world. It is too much of a focus on winning and getting those jackets because that is what is drilled into them instead of just enjoying the sport and having fun out there.
I said it in another thread when they talked about tumblers quitting cheer and doing power tumbling to show off their skills. Sure they can go do that, or do both like Kiara, but if they quit cheer because they can't do their super hard passes then they weren't in cheer for a good reason to begin with. There is more to it then tumbling and winning those jackets. Cheer to me growing up was about having fun and getting to experience something with friends. If you are willing to quit because you can't do some tumbling pass or you can't be a level 5 athlete, then cheer wasn't the place for you anyway.
This is why I loved high school cheerleading and did it through high school. We didn't compete but we sure had fun at practice and cheering the games. The pressure was off and we just got to enjoy participating in something that we loved. Allstar cheer isn't like that anymore not because things are hard but because some people involved in this sport have taken the fun away.

redsmom said:

I totally agree, this thread shouldn't be about putting down any athlete.

It should be about the new varsity scoring. In what world is 100% and 75% the same? In what world is an A and a C the same? One is passing, and that is okay, but the other is excelling and that should be rewarded.

I would love to hear from the coaches that were given more "wiggle room"...

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I think it helps small gyms more than anyone. Most small gyms arent even getting 50%+1

Mandi Spina said:

I think it helps small gyms more than anyone. Most small gyms arent even getting 50%+1

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My small team from mysmall gym has worked their tails off for their full team tumbling, and we already didn't max on the varsity scoresheet for difficulty (which has yet to be actually explained to me in a way that makes sense). So if my full team tumbling didn't max, then I am REALLY interested to see what happens this season...

JumpingJackFlash said:

Thank you for the explanation. But if you're not willing to put in the time to "hang", then maybe your not ready for level 5. It seems the other 75% has. As others have said, 75% is a "C".

Why doesn't gymnatics allow 25% of the level 9/10 gymnasts do less than whats required? Other sports have thrived on being the absolute best they can be, why can't cheer?

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How will the 75% feel about the other 25% that could be possibly riding their coat tails to get to a spot that they are not ready for yet.

SheCheers said:

I personally don't care for the vague description of "scoring equitably". I would like some clarification about this new rule does it mean that both 15/20 and 20/20 standing tucks on level 4 can achieve the same exact score, assuming execution is equal?

Guess what guys, you probably don't need level 1 teams anymore, just absorb all those athletes into your 2-5 levels.

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The reason the statement is vague is because your Tumbling Difficulty score isn't a reflection of just the percentage of your team's participation in a single skill. Level of Squad Participation of EACH SKILL in your routine is just one component that contributes to your Tumbling Difficulty Score. Other components, like variety (how many DIFFERENT tumbling skills were incorporated into the routine), number of occurences (a team that tumbles 3 times vs. a team that tumbles 2), and the difficulty of the specific skills thrown (ex: standing tucks vs. toe touch back handspring back tucks) will also contribute to your Difficulty score. The truth is that the difference in Standing Tumbling score between a team with 100% participation and a team with 75% participation is almost negligible given ALL the other factors a judge considers. This adjustment isn't going to drastically affect how teams are scored in Tumbling Difficulty. It's main objective is to give coaches the flexibility to make changes to the routine and to the roster that aren't neccesarily being held hostage by tumbling.

cheerKT said:

So if 3/4s of your team has....lets say....fulls.... and you don't, where does your desire to get one go? I think we just created some lazy athletes.

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Rules don't create bad character and what you are talking about is bad character.


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Maybe we should pay Varsity 75% of what they charge and see if they still think that equals 100%.