All-Star A Night With The Popes.

Welcome to our Cheerleading Community

Members see FEWER ads... join today!

Is there a good analogy in this? Can it be compared to state vs federal law? A state can say something is legal but a federal law can say illegal. So can you still be charged by the federal? Yes.

However: this is not the US court system and this is all done by private institutions. There is nothing requiring any EP or Coach to follow or enforce any rules. So we can pretty much do as we dang please and there is no precedent. So in that instance I cant say the EP or the Coach is more at fault. It is whoever runs it all determines it.

Great post. I agree with you. You hit the nail on the head when you said there is no precedent. State and Federal laws don't leave much room for grey area
 
I am simply trying to determine what "exhibition" is being defined as. When my kid exhibitions, she goes in, does her thing, and there are no scores tabulated and we aren't included in the awards ceremony. It appears as if in this instance exhibition is being used to describe competing against no other teams, which is inaccurate if your team was registered in a division, scored, and announced as a winner. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I still don't feel like this has been answered. In the 57,892 versions of this story that we've been told its been said "Courtney wanted to change them to exhibition but Cheersport told her there was no need because they were the only ones in the division anyway" and then we're told "one of the 4 teams was exhibition so it doesn't count"

1. Exhibition and competing in a division alone are 2 completely different things. So the question remains... Which was it? Did the 4th team exhibition or did they compete as the only team in the division? Were they scored? Did they receive Cheersport jackets that said "National Champion"? Because if they did then that is NOT exhibitioning by any stretch of the imagination.

2. Clearly it "counts" because CEA was assessed a fine.

I feel like MomOf2ThatsMe asked a very clear question. So I'm asking again. Are you guys considering it an exhibition just because they were alone in the division? Because that's not the definition of exhibition. If they were scored and received jackets and a title, then they competed.
 
I've been keeping up via phone since I'm on vacation. I've been so disappointed by so much that has been posted and embarrassed by those that decided a personal attack, whether true or not, was a legit option. I do not know the Pope family personally, but my heart broke for them this weekend. Regardless of whether you like them or their organization, the things that were posted on this forum, talked about through tweets or hinted at via text message is a disgrace and a shame. The matter at hand had absolutely nothing to do with personal lives. Not liking them does not give anyone the right to slander or attack. There are many people (and some who still have posting privileges) that I have lost all respect for. I'm a firm believer of "when the world walks out, your friends walk in".




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I've been keeping up via phone since I'm on vacation. I've been so disappointed by so much that has been posted and embarrassed by those that decided a personal attack, whether true or not, was a legit option. I do not know the Pope family personally, but my heart broke for them this weekend. Regardless of whether you like them or their organization, the things that were posted on this forum, talked about through tweets or hinted at via text message is a disgrace and a shame. The matter at hand had absolutely nothing to do with personal lives. Not liking them does not give anyone the right to slander or attack. There are many people (and some who still have posting privileges) that I have lost all respect for. I'm a firm believer of "when the world walks out, your friends walk in".




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
there is no Better word than, in my opinion, bravo. I wholeheartedly agree.
 
The wording in the rules said that an athlete can only COMPETE with 3 other teams. Not perform. Therefore, as I read them, an exhibition wouldn't count in the crossover per comp as it's only a performance, not a competition. Maybe not the spirit of the rule, but there you go. Maybe if they focused on better wording (I'm looking at you, image guidelines)..and what defines an exhibition.

Which is why I think the penalty wasn't so 'Legions of Fire Upon Your Soul' as it could have been. It was a team, competing out of level skills at what was essentially an exhibition (whether or not it was ACTUALLY an exhibition, or was supposed to be an exhibition but was still 'treated as a competition' I don't know)..never mind all the possible 'We got permission, they were going to exhibition to keep it legal but was told not to worry about it' business. Not saying it was right or wrong on any aspect, but the situation is once more convoluted by possibility.
 
Am I the only one who doesn't understand why competing on four different teams with completely different routines that are level and age appropriate is considered "cheating?"
No. You're not. But I was the girl who did 2 theater shows and a sport one semester while maintaining honors. If people handle my schedule the way they handle crossovers, they'd probably try to arrest my mother for child abuse. I maintain it was the best thing I've ever done lol
 
Am I the only one who doesn't understand why competing on four different teams with completely different routines that are level and age appropriate is considered "cheating?"
prior to last year, it wouldn't have been. Last year they added the crossover rule, which says you can't compete more than 3 routines in a day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Am I the only one who doesn't understand why competing on four different teams with completely different routines that are level and age appropriate is considered "cheating?"

Because the usasf rules state you can't do it. 3 teams max. Against the rules = cheating in most people's minds.
 
prior to last year, it wouldn't have been. Last year they added the crossover rule, which says you can't compete more than 3 routines in a day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Which I find funny- because people were more concerned with AMOUNT of teams, and not PERCENTAGE of teams when considering how the vote went. You'd think PERCENTAGE of teams would be the bigger issue- as that, in my mind, is a direct hit against sandbagging. Amount of teams to me sounds like personal preference of how you run your gym. I could be wrong though..
 
I cant type everything I want on my phone. But, no, an individual or organization would not vote on an issue about themselves.

And while a completely independent disciplinary board would be ideal, you have to have people that know what they are talking about. And when you get people that know what they are talking about, they tend to know each other. Some would call that a jury of their peers.

No easy solutions.

I get that people will know each other, but I think there is a difference between simply knowing and being financially involved in the sport. If my bottom line as an owner is impacted by my rivals and other gyms, then I just don't think I should be making decisions that impact them. And when it comes to worlds teams, that "rival" doesn't need to be down the street-they could very easily be across the country but if they take a hit, then maybe, just maybe, it gives me a slight advantage at worlds. Maybe if they get punished for cheating, Suzie's mom (who is the point tumbler and flyer on their world's team) pulls from the program.

I feel like a lot of these committees are composed of big name gym owners, and in some cases that is the last person I want to see on there. Maybe I am naive, but I don't think having a big gym means you are honest, unbiased, and trustworthy, and you know all there is to know about all-star. Some of them are, but not all. I will never have a big gym (nor is that my goal) but I would like to think I could still contribute to discussions, provide worthwhile insight, and be an honest and fair assessor. But, because I am a small unknown gym, I will never have that chance. Nobody is knocking down my door to ask what I think, so I post it on FB even when nobody asks. :D

ACEDAD, I personally believe you are a great, involved person in the industry that would provide an unbiased opinion. Debbie Love also comes to mind. Both of you could be associated with a gym, but you are also not bringing home a paycheck and basing your livelihood on a gym (at least to my knowledge-correct me if I'm wrong).
 
I still don't feel like this has been answered. In the 57,892 versions of this story that we've been told its been said "Courtney wanted to change them to exhibition but Cheersport told her there was no need because they were the only ones in the division anyway" and then we're told "one of the 4 teams was exhibition so it doesn't count"

1. Exhibition and competing in a division alone are 2 completely different things. So the question remains... Which was it? Did the 4th team exhibition or did they compete as the only team in the division? Were they scored? Did they receive Cheersport jackets that said "National Champion"? Because if they did then that is NOT exhibitioning by any stretch of the imagination.


I feel like MomOf2ThatsMe asked a very clear question. So I'm asking again. Are you guys considering it an exhibition just because they were alone in the division? Because that's not the definition of exhibition. If they were scored and received jackets and a title, then they competed.

Not to fan flames, but to answer your question, if you look at the Cheersport results, and at the schedule, all the teams the Mom listed her athlete as being "on" for that comp, received placements. None listed as exhibition. If you want me to post the links to each division's results, and the link to the schedule, I will, but y'all can Google just like I did.
 
Not to fan flames, but to answer your question, if you look at the Cheersport results, and at the schedule, all the teams the Mom listed her athlete as being "on" for that comp, received placements. None listed as exhibition. If you want me to post the links to each division's results, and the link to the schedule, I will, but y'all can Google just like I did.
I will counter, as devils advocate, with two questions:
Were other teams listed as exhibition elsewhere on the document?

If others are to be believed, and they were told NOT to go as exhibition, but to compete and it would be fine, how does that impact this situation? As if they had been allowed to exhibition seeing as they had no competition anyway...
 
Back