All-Star Question About The Future?

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Nov 20, 2010
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I don't know if it's just me but I am seeing so many younger kids in all star cheer that have unbelievable tumbling. I'm wondering what the teams will look like in the future. Before the new tumbling rules, I really thought the bar was going to be raised not lowered. By that I mean, I would have thought L4 would allow running fulls and standing fulls, and L5 would allow for (and I guess I mean all competitive teams would have these elements) running double fulls and double full combo passes, jumps to full and standing double fulls. A full now only guarantees you a spot on a restricted 5 not a worlds 5. So questions 1) Is anyone other than me noticing a huge increase in the talent of athletes under 12, and 2) If so, with all this talent coming up, what do you think the impact will be with worlds (that is do you think the age will be raised to compete? will worlds change venues to hold huge crowds and last a week?, etc. etc......)
 
SuzyB, it's not just you noticing the talent of these little ones. It's not just tumbling either. The bar has also been raised in stunting. I watched Youth Elite practice for 2 hours last night. I'm sure even the anti-teal crowd will be amazed.
 
The talent level of younger athletes today is amazing. I too think kids are getting skills younger than say, 5 years ago.

When my CP started cheering about 6 years ago, I used to say two years per level as progression speed was good enough to keep her up with her peers (that may be keeping her up with her peers, but they are being surpassed by younger kids now!).

However, I do think that "we" as a whole need to step back and ponder the consequences of kids hitting skills earlier and earlier. Just because a child can throw a skill or performing a stunt (and throw it well/correctly) doesn't necessarily mean that they should be throwing a skill or stunting.

I am speaking in generalization here (not every kid fits every scenario, we all know some kids are more mature than others):

1) Does an 8/9 year old actually have the ability to assess their technique and make corrections, often mid air, when a skill goes wrong to avoid injury? Whether it's tumbling or stunting? Ability to make judgments, particularly split second decisions is still developing. There are reasons that we don't let kids drive until they are 16.

2) Are younger athletes able to assess issues or effectively communicate: the wear and tear on their body; whether or not they truly understand a given set of instructions? Have you ever had a kids stand there and tell you, "Uh, huhm yeah I understand"...but in the end product is was clear that they really didn't understand and there were flying by the sit of their pants? At younger ages most kids are pleasers they are gonna tell you what they think you want to hear, particularly if it means they get to to something that they really want to do or if they think it will make the adult happy or garner some praise.

3) What about athlete burnout, both mental and physical? Particularly consider physical burnout in a sport that requires year round training. Look at the rise in acl injuries in female soccer players or rotator cuff injuries in ball players or frankly the rise in most all injuries in youth athletes. (I speak from experience here, my 14 y/o soccer/lacrosse daughter just had shoulder surgery to repair 2 tears. The Ortho said that this is the type of injury that he would normally expect to see in an athlete in their mid-twenties, but that he is seeing more and more serious injuries in very young athletes particularly year round athletes as there is no recovery time...) The drop out rate in youth sports around ages 13/14/15 is astounding. Not exactly the way to grow a sport.

4) How many times have you seen a kid who had certain skills prior about 13 or 14 loose skill or "mental block" skills when they hit puberty and realize that there are some risks to the skills they are throwing? (Was just having this discussion with some coaches the other day).

I suppose that learning a skill earlier is easier than learning a skill later. Sort of like learning a foreign language it easier the younger you start.

In my opinion there are numerous risks (and yes benefits) for our younger athletes progressing at a speed that was unseen just a few years ago.

OK that's my rant...you can start stoning me now! ;)
 
More cheerleaders, means more siblings get involved, meaning more and younger kids watching and wanting to get involved. I have NO idea what the future will hold, but I'm SO excited to see..
This is very true. My older cp discovered all-stars in the spring of 2nd grade. Her sister who is 3 years younger? She was already on a Mini team in Kindergarten. And probably would have started a year earlier had there been a Tiny or Mini team for her.
 
The talent level of younger athletes today is amazing. I too think kids are getting skills younger than say, 5 years ago.

When my CP started cheering about 6 years ago, I used to say two years per level as progression speed was good enough to keep her up with her peers (that may be keeping her up with her peers, but they are being surpassed by younger kids now!).

However, I do think that "we" as a whole need to step back and ponder the consequences of kids hitting skills earlier and earlier. Just because a child can throw a skill or performing a stunt (and throw it well/correctly) doesn't necessarily mean that they should be throwing a skill or stunting.

I am speaking in generalization here (not every kid fits every scenario, we all know some kids are more mature than others):

1) Does an 8/9 year old actually have the ability to assess their technique and make corrections, often mid air, when a skill goes wrong to avoid injury? Whether it's tumbling or stunting? Ability to make judgments, particularly split second decisions is still developing. There are reasons that we don't let kids drive until they are 16.

2) Are younger athletes able to assess issues or effectively communicate: the wear and tear on their body; whether or not they truly understand a given set of instructions? Have you ever had a kids stand there and tell you, "Uh, huhm yeah I understand"...but in the end product is was clear that they really didn't understand and there were flying by the sit of their pants? At younger ages most kids are pleasers they are gonna tell you what they think you want to hear, particularly if it means they get to to something that they really want to do or if they think it will make the adult happy or garner some praise.

3) What about athlete burnout, both mental and physical? Particularly consider physical burnout in a sport that requires year round training. Look at the rise in acl injuries in female soccer players or rotator cuff injuries in ball players or frankly the rise in most all injuries in youth athletes. (I speak from experience here, my 14 y/o soccer/lacrosse daughter just had shoulder surgery to repair 2 tears. The Ortho said that this is the type of injury that he would normally expect to see in an athlete in their mid-twenties, but that he is seeing more and more serious injuries in very young athletes particularly year round athletes as there is no recovery time...) The drop out rate in youth sports around ages 13/14/15 is astounding. Not exactly the way to grow a sport.

4) How many times have you seen a kid who had certain skills prior about 13 or 14 loose skill or "mental block" skills when they hit puberty and realize that there are some risks to the skills they are throwing? (Was just having this discussion with some coaches the other day).

I suppose that learning a skill earlier is easier than learning a skill later. Sort of like learning a foreign language it easier the younger you start.

In my opinion there are numerous risks (and yes benefits) for our younger athletes progressing at a speed that was unseen just a few years ago.

OK that's my rant...you can start stoning me now! ;)
No stones being thrown from this glass house! My older cp who just turned 15 had ankle surgery to clean out scar tissue 2 months ago. Hopefully this will help the recurring tendonitis she has had for 2 years now and allow her not to have ankle stabilization surgery in the future. She is "taking the year off' but tbh I do not see her going back to cheer, I think she has had enough. My 12 year old is on a J3 team which might might might go J4; she has most of her level 4 tumbling skills and is working on level 5 now. But we are in no rush to push her to that higher level team; I'd like to think we learned from our mistakes with our older one. We'd like her to continue enjoying herself and of course progressing at a steady pace but she hopefully has plenty of cheering years ahead of her and plenty of time to get to that Sr 5 level.
We are definitely seeing a greater sense of urgency for these younger kids to master these higher level skills earlier, however, I think if you have competent coaches who truly understand the progression of these skills, you see less injury and more understanding of what is expected of them not only in tumbling but in stunting where perhaps there should be greater concern for injury at the higher levels. It's the gyms that push their 8 year olds to be on their level 5 team (yes, I know, not legal) so they can have 3 fulls on the team instead of 2 that concern me the most.
 
The talent level of younger athletes today is amazing. I too think kids are getting skills younger than say, 5 years ago.

1) Does an 8/9 year old actually have the ability to assess their technique and make corrections, often mid air, when a skill goes wrong to avoid injury? Whether it's tumbling or stunting? Ability to make judgments, particularly split second decisions is still developing. There are reasons that we don't let kids drive until they are 16.

I suppose that learning a skill earlier is easier than learning a skill later. Sort of like learning a foreign language it easier the younger you start.

In my opinion there are numerous risks (and yes benefits) for our younger athletes progressing at a speed that was unseen just a few years ago.

OK that's my rant...you can start stoning me now! ;)

I love this post, especially number 1.
Very well said. You put into words exactly what I think every day watching my young CP wanting to master higher and higher level skills. I trust her coaches 100%, but I don't necessarily trust her yet.
 
not gonna lie, but after reading through some of these threads the past few days, the whole USASF rules debacle, the rising cost of cheer and the dropping economy, i'd say the future could be a lot different than any of us can imagine!
 
The talent level of younger athletes today is amazing. I too think kids are getting skills younger than say, 5 years ago.

When my CP started cheering about 6 years ago, I used to say two years per level as progression speed was good enough to keep her up with her peers (that may be keeping her up with her peers, but they are being surpassed by younger kids now!).

However, I do think that "we" as a whole need to step back and ponder the consequences of kids hitting skills earlier and earlier. Just because a child can throw a skill or performing a stunt (and throw it well/correctly) doesn't necessarily mean that they should be throwing a skill or stunting.

I am speaking in generalization here (not every kid fits every scenario, we all know some kids are more mature than others):

1) Does an 8/9 year old actually have the ability to assess their technique and make corrections, often mid air, when a skill goes wrong to avoid injury? Whether it's tumbling or stunting? Ability to make judgments, particularly split second decisions is still developing. There are reasons that we don't let kids drive until they are 16.

2) Are younger athletes able to assess issues or effectively communicate: the wear and tear on their body; whether or not they truly understand a given set of instructions? Have you ever had a kids stand there and tell you, "Uh, huhm yeah I understand"...but in the end product is was clear that they really didn't understand and there were flying by the sit of their pants? At younger ages most kids are pleasers they are gonna tell you what they think you want to hear, particularly if it means they get to to something that they really want to do or if they think it will make the adult happy or garner some praise.

3) What about athlete burnout, both mental and physical? Particularly consider physical burnout in a sport that requires year round training. Look at the rise in acl injuries in female soccer players or rotator cuff injuries in ball players or frankly the rise in most all injuries in youth athletes. (I speak from experience here, my 14 y/o soccer/lacrosse daughter just had shoulder surgery to repair 2 tears. The Ortho said that this is the type of injury that he would normally expect to see in an athlete in their mid-twenties, but that he is seeing more and more serious injuries in very young athletes particularly year round athletes as there is no recovery time...) The drop out rate in youth sports around ages 13/14/15 is astounding. Not exactly the way to grow a sport.

4) How many times have you seen a kid who had certain skills prior about 13 or 14 loose skill or "mental block" skills when they hit puberty and realize that there are some risks to the skills they are throwing? (Was just having this discussion with some coaches the other day).

I suppose that learning a skill earlier is easier than learning a skill later. Sort of like learning a foreign language it easier the younger you start.

In my opinion there are numerous risks (and yes benefits) for our younger athletes progressing at a speed that was unseen just a few years ago.

OK that's my rant...you can start stoning me now! ;)
Great post! You made me think about a lot more. I never thought about #4, and you are so right. I guess I assumed that girls weren't throwing skills they threw when they were younger because of the actual physics...their body is changing and center of gravity changes, etc....but I never thought about it from the mental perspective-that they now realize it is dangerous.
 
SuzyB, it's not just you noticing the talent of these little ones. It's not just tumbling either. The bar has also been raised in stunting. I watched Youth Elite practice for 2 hours last night. I'm sure even the anti-teal crowd will be amazed.

Anti teal? I'm sure everyone is a fan of talented individuals especially youngsters. Not everyone will agree with every part of every gym. Doesn't mean anyone wants to see kids fail.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
The talent level of younger athletes today is amazing. I too think kids are getting skills younger than say, 5 years ago.

When my CP started cheering about 6 years ago, I used to say two years per level as progression speed was good enough to keep her up with her peers (that may be keeping her up with her peers, but they are being surpassed by younger kids now!).

However, I do think that "we" as a whole need to step back and ponder the consequences of kids hitting skills earlier and earlier. Just because a child can throw a skill or performing a stunt (and throw it well/correctly) doesn't necessarily mean that they should be throwing a skill or stunting.

I am speaking in generalization here (not every kid fits every scenario, we all know some kids are more mature than others):

1) Does an 8/9 year old actually have the ability to assess their technique and make corrections, often mid air, when a skill goes wrong to avoid injury? Whether it's tumbling or stunting? Ability to make judgments, particularly split second decisions is still developing. There are reasons that we don't let kids drive until they are 16.

2) Are younger athletes able to assess issues or effectively communicate: the wear and tear on their body; whether or not they truly understand a given set of instructions? Have you ever had a kids stand there and tell you, "Uh, huhm yeah I understand"...but in the end product is was clear that they really didn't understand and there were flying by the sit of their pants? At younger ages most kids are pleasers they are gonna tell you what they think you want to hear, particularly if it means they get to to something that they really want to do or if they think it will make the adult happy or garner some praise.

3) What about athlete burnout, both mental and physical? Particularly consider physical burnout in a sport that requires year round training. Look at the rise in acl injuries in female soccer players or rotator cuff injuries in ball players or frankly the rise in most all injuries in youth athletes. (I speak from experience here, my 14 y/o soccer/lacrosse daughter just had shoulder surgery to repair 2 tears. The Ortho said that this is the type of injury that he would normally expect to see in an athlete in their mid-twenties, but that he is seeing more and more serious injuries in very young athletes particularly year round athletes as there is no recovery time...) The drop out rate in youth sports around ages 13/14/15 is astounding. Not exactly the way to grow a sport.

4) How many times have you seen a kid who had certain skills prior about 13 or 14 loose skill or "mental block" skills when they hit puberty and realize that there are some risks to the skills they are throwing? (Was just having this discussion with some coaches the other day).

I suppose that learning a skill earlier is easier than learning a skill later. Sort of like learning a foreign language it easier the younger you start.

In my opinion there are numerous risks (and yes benefits) for our younger athletes progressing at a speed that was unseen just a few years ago.

OK that's my rant...you can start stoning me now! ;)

Thanks for taking the time to type this out so that I didn't have to :).
 
Anti teal? I'm sure everyone is a fan of talented individuals especially youngsters. Not everyone will agree with every part of every gym. Doesn't mean anyone wants to see kids fail.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not suggesting anyone is wanting to see kids fail. Thanks for the reply though. I hope all are safe in LA right now.
 
I haven't read the whole thread yet- but I think that coaches push tumbling younger and younger to get the smallest possible fliers for their L5 teams. It's easier to justify why you place a younger girl on the junior or senior team over a larger/older flier, if the younger flier has high level tumbling skills.

No stones being thrown from this glass house! My older cp who just turned 15 had ankle surgery to clean out scar tissue 2 months ago. Hopefully this will help the recurring tendonitis she has had for 2 years now and allow her not to have ankle stabilization surgery in the future. She is "taking the year off' but tbh I do not see her going back to cheer, I think she has had enough. My 12 year old is on a J3 team which might might might go J4; she has most of her level 4 tumbling skills and is working on level 5 now. But we are in no rush to push her to that higher level team; I'd like to think we learned from our mistakes with our older one. We'd like her to continue enjoying herself and of course progressing at a steady pace but she hopefully has plenty of cheering years ahead of her and plenty of time to get to that Sr 5 level.
We are definitely seeing a greater sense of urgency for these younger kids to master these higher level skills earlier, however, I think if you have competent coaches who truly understand the progression of these skills, you see less injury and more understanding of what is expected of them not only in tumbling but in stunting where perhaps there should be greater concern for injury at the higher levels. It's the gyms that push their 8 year olds to be on their level 5 team (yes, I know, not legal) so they can have 3 fulls on the team instead of 2 that concern me the most.
 
I am also curious what the future holds. We are a smaller gym and we had one girl get a gorgeous full when she was 7 years old. She is only at the gym twice a week. Some kids are really talented, naturals, and learn the skills so easily.
 
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