All-Star Scores Vs. Number Of Skills - Nca Nationals

BlueCat said:

When reviewing the fairness of scoresheets, it is important to remember that it is nearly impossible for a coach to be objective about their own team. Judges are right about how good you are more often than you tend to give them credit for.

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I shimmy this times a million not because I'm a soccer referee, but...well, yeah, I shimmy this times a million because I'm a soccer referee.

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newcheerdad said:

I shimmy this times a million not because I'm a soccer referee, but...well, yeah, I shimmy this times a million because I'm a soccer referee.

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I should probably add I think the current judging is as accurate as possible with the current system. The judges themselves can do no better than the system allows.


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In gymnastics, the judges know the tricks the gymnast is going to perform, before she begins. The coaches submit the routine, with the stated difficulty level. So, King's suggestion is not unheard-of. How much would this cost for the EP to have this on the judges table as their backup or on their computer monitors?:

RJsExtremeMom said:

In gymnastics, the judges know the tricks the gymnast is going to perform, before she begins. The coaches submit the routine, with the stated difficulty level. So, King's suggestion is not unheard-of. How much would this cost for the EP to have this on the judges table as their backup or on their computer monitors?:

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At CHEERSPORT I believe the cost would be nil. A good way to see if it would work.

Though I keep stressing: people should not be asked to double check the sheet that comes in AND score (that would be doubling the job). Just scoring what is on the screen would be enough.

If they score it live then double check it on video then we are doing twice the amount of work for the same result.

yojaehs said:

Atlanta as a whole was SCORED much better. They also released scores and provided breakdowns.
Judges association would solve so many problems!


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Simply having a judge association won't do anything. What the association does might do something. How do you expect it to solve problem, emphasis on how?

Andre said:

Simply having a judge association won't do anything. What the association does might do something. How do you expect it to solve problem, emphasis on how?

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Agreed. Committees don't solve things just as much as coalitions trying to buy loans don't solve anything. It's the plans they come up with and if those committees or coalitions put forth a way to act them out.


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At NCA College nationals we have to submit a form that has the skills we will be performing and the scoring range it falls into. My first year going as a coach was last year, so I don't know if they have been doing it for long, but I don't see why coaches couldn't provide this info for all competitions.

tntdynomite said:

At NCA College nationals we have to submit a form that has the skills we will be performing and the scoring range it falls into. My first year going as a coach was last year, so I don't know if they have been doing it for long, but I don't see why coaches couldn't provide this info for all competitions.

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Lots less teams for such a high profile event. It can slow things down significantly.


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BlueCat said:

When reviewing the fairness of scoresheets, it is important to remember that it is nearly impossible for a coach to be objective about their own team. Judges are right about how good you are more often than you tend to give them credit for.

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When it comes to overall impression, creativity, execution, etc i would agree with you. When it comes to difficulty and counting skills, NO ONE knows that better than the coach himself.

instead of judges having to do twice the work would it be feasible to have 2 panels? like one judges the routine live like normal, and a separate panel, even if it's like 2 people watches the video for difficulty/actual competed skills.
I feel like this would work best with Kingston's idea for submitting a writeup of the routine beforehand. that way the judges watching live don't have to constantly check what is supposed to be coming up

not sure if this would be possible really, just an idea

Andre said:

Simply having a judge association won't do anything. What the association does might do something. How do you expect it to solve problem, emphasis on how?

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#1 takes judging responsibility off of the EP. Example- NFL- Cowboys vs 49ers bad call, do they not return to San Fran or blame neutral refs?
#2 judges association would increase education. Increasing consistency.


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yojaehs said:

#1 takes judging responsibility off of the EP. Example- NFL- Cowboys vs 49ers bad call, do they not return to San Fran or blame neutral refs?
#2 judges association would increase education. Increasing consistency.


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I think if judging became part of the USASF and you hired officiating crews then everything else would fall into place. I think an association but EPs still hire judges would just confound the problem more.

King said:

I think you tend to be the exception rather than the rule, even though many people would benefit from actually know what is going on. The 'magic' of cheerleading won disapear just because we quantify parts of it.

But I do think for a lot of people ignorance is bliss.

PS - Atlanta went a lot better this year with the new scoring system.

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Yes new system > old one. And they released averages for each section just like NCA.

yojaehs said:

#1 takes judging responsibility off of the EP. Example- NFL- Cowboys vs 49ers bad call, do they not return to San Fran or blame neutral refs?
#2 judges association would increase education. Increasing consistency.


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1. As long as EPs are creating the scoring system they must have some responsibility for it.

2. Education can be increased with or without a judge association. Would it be an improvement to separate education from the people making the scoring systems?

Andre said:

1. As long as EPs are creating the scoring system they must have some responsibility for it.

2. Education can be increased with or without a judge association. Would it be an improvement to separate education from the people making the scoring systems?

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1. I think a judges association and scoring system should be separate from EP involvement.
2. Yes


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