All-Star Stacking Or Pushing

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azmom

Cheer Parent
Nov 11, 2011
79
69
With tryouts now here, do you prefer a gym that stacks the teams so that everyone on the team has the level skills and does them well? Or a gym that allows teammates that might be close to the level skills but not there yet and puts them on the team to push them. With the hope they get the skills during the season? I see the benefits of both. With a stacked team you might win a lot but you might not progress to the next level skills. And some of them might get bored. But then a team with "almost" skills might not win much but the teammates will continue to progress on their skills. But not ever winning can make for a long season. I am not sure which is better. Opinions? (This is for the lower levels. I think level 5 teams should have level 5 skills.)
 
I think gyms need to field what they have however, personally you need to have level 5 skills to be level 5. Also, large gyms likely have less of an issue at any level.

I think that mid size and small gyms have to think about what is best for their teams... I personally would rather see majority of the level skills already there as this will make it easier for choreo and everything. Again, to each their own and every gym has their own philosophy.
 
I would rather my cp be on a stacked "winning" team rather than a janktastic "push" team. It doesn't mean everyone has to have the required skills, if Susie doesn't have her BHS but can one man a senior girl/hyperextend her jumps/work a dance, then she deserves to be on the higher level team.
Nothing is worse than a team with amazing tumbling and then the rest of the routine is "mehhh".
 
If you hope the team gets the skills, then you should expect them to do poorly.
<10% don't have the needed skills? You'll probably be fine. >20% you're most likely hosed. 10-20% is anyone's guess ( in my oh, so extensive experience :rolleyes:)
 
I think a lot comes down to coaching and the amount of hours your levels teams do a week. If I am coaching a level 4 team that does 6+ hours per week including tumbling I would feel confident putting some athletes on there who I knew have the talent and drive to progress. If I am coaching a level 4 team that does 3 or 4 hours that leaves very little time to practice tumbling so the athletes would need to have it before being allowed on the team.

I think you need to find a happy medium and KNOW your athletes. So many times I have seen athletes put on higher level teams before they were ready and then yelled at and bullied by coaches because they hadn't achieved the 'promised' skill in the requisite amount of time. At the end of the day if you are going to put 'suzie no tuck' on your level 5 team, you are going to have to live with it if they don't always live up to expectations.
 
To me, there is "stacking", "correct level placement", and "pushing". I am a fan of "correct level placement". If my cp has level three skills, I want her on a level 3 team. "Stacking", to me, is a hard one because, if a small gym has 9-level 2 kids, 6-level 3 kids, and 5-level 4 kids to make a team, it would have to be a level 2, in my opinion, to be competitive and safe. Using the same example above, to "push" 9-level 2 kids to compete level 3 skills in 4-5 months is just a recipe for burnout, injury, low self-esteem and drama.
 
My observation...athletes don't gain many new tumbling skills during the season...maybe during the summer, yes, which is why team placement is often "soft" until the end of the summer. Once the choreography season starts in August/September, athletes are busy perfecting all of the elements of a routine and preparing for competitions.

That said, I'm a fan of "soft" placement on a higher level team for the summer if an athlete is close to a skill with the understanding that there are no guarantees come choreeography time. It gives the coaching staff opportunity to evaluate the athletes and the teams to ensure best possible placement for the benefit of the team and the athlete's development.
 
I think people tend to be too against 'satcking' and too much for 'pushing' because it looks like a faster track to Worlds.

Slow down and take a slower path and the skills will be better, easier, cleaner, and safer and your kid will have a better time.
 
My observation...athletes don't gain many new tumbling skills during the season...maybe during the summer, yes, which is why team placement is often "soft" until the end of the summer. Once the choreography season starts in August/September, athletes are busy perfecting all of the elements of a routine and preparing for competitions.

That said, I'm a fan of "soft" placement on a higher level team for the summer if an athlete is close to a skill with the understanding that there are no guarantees come choreeography time. It gives the coaching staff opportunity to evaluate the athletes and the teams to ensure best possible placement for the benefit of the team and the athlete's development.


I always tell my team most skills are not gotten in the heart of the season, it's really summer when you primary focus is on tumbling where you get your skills.....
 
it doesn't have to be one or the other, the best method lies somewhere in between.

with a few exceptions due to age forcing some placements, I don't think that we've ever placed someone on a team with no level appropriate skills nor have we placed a person with all of the level appropriate skills on a level lower than that.

our teams generally start off with about
5 top of the level kids
10 solid level kids
5 have 1 or 2 of the skills and are close to the others.
 
I think people tend to be too against 'satcking' and too much for 'pushing' because it looks like a faster track to Worlds.

Slow down and take a slower path and the skills will be better, easier, cleaner, and safer and your kid will have a better time.
Absolutely! I'm a big proponent of "slow and steady wins the race"!
 
I would rather my cp be on a stacked "winning" team rather than a janktastic "push" team. It doesn't mean everyone has to have the required skills, if Susie doesn't have her BHS but can one man a senior girl/hyperextend her jumps/work a dance, then she deserves to be on the higher level team.
Nothing is worse than a team with amazing tumbling and then the rest of the routine is "mehhh".

Yes! Thank you!


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I think people tend to be too against 'satcking' and too much for 'pushing' because it looks like a faster track to Worlds.

Slow down and take a slower path and the skills will be better, easier, cleaner, and safer and your kid will have a better time.

100% agreed!

The ironic part is that the parents complaining about not winning are the same parents who want Suzie on a level 2 team because she got her BHS on the cheese mat yesterday.


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Our old gym gave you benefit of doubt..
If you kind of have or can throw a skill at tryouts they would trust in you to come up to level. Although a lot of the team could do that level skill there will still always those who couldn't. One comp in particular there was 7 teams. I kid you not when I tell you every single team either dropped a stunt or part of the pyramid and two team dropped both.
After day 1 we were in 6 of 7 and we were the only team in our division to not have one single fall.

However, we didn't have the tumbling, nor difficulty because our team was barely level 2. We had some level 2 tumbling and pushed most those girl to try to execute level 2 stunts. We would go to comp and our goal wasn't let's hit so we can win, it was let's not come in last place. I will say every single comp for that team that season we were second to last so we did atleast hit our goal.
The girls were happy and everyone was family. I know every kid was usually happy with their tryout spot and no one was truly worried what team they would make. If you could throw a skill that level then they believed in you..



Then we moved to Texas. You absolutely, positively, will not move up at our gym unless you have all required skills!!! I'm talking specialty tumbling, flying basing, jumps, and dance.

You are required to have it to make the team and here I am a week before tryouts begin and I'm wondering if my kid who has running and standing tumbling thru to tuck and layout. Specialty (front walkovers/ punch front) through to tuck/layout. A standing tuck . Almost running full - And I'm wondering will my kid make level 3?

Because her jumps may be average, but idk about flying.. She does ok with it but I don't think it's up to par with what they want and she is to small to base.

As much as this sounds frustrating it really is but having kids on my kids level 2 team that can all tumble specialty for level 2 with strong pretty BHS's and are good strong bases. They all have decent jumps I become ok with it. They were all really good this year and we won a whole lot because our level 2 team actually had complete level 2 skills not just tumbling or just flying. When you get skills all around you will move up but when your struggling in any area it's not going to happen. We don't want front spots and we don't want kids not tumbling. So I feel it's completely reasonable that if your going to compete on that level team that you have all the skills. No one can hold anyone back.

So I'm all for the stacked idea now that we have been a part of both kinds of programs. You can be happy at a push program but for us as much I love the push program the stack works better for us!
 
I don't have a problem with having a push team within a stack programme for development particularly at a small gym perhaps with junior or youth age kids. I do believe however that if you are going to have an 'excel' or 'push' team then that has to be clear from season start. Parents and kids should know that is what the team has been put together for and be behind that vision. The goal for that team is developing the level appropriate skills throughout the season and perhaps competing a clean level appropriate routine rather than results focused. The goal cannot get lost mid season and coaches/kids/parents be drawn into how do we measure up against XY All Stars. I think that's where this goes wrong with things like AllstarErin mentioned of coaches succumbing to competition season pressure, losing sight of the intention of the team and getting frustrated when the kids don't place or hit new level skills.
 
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