All-Star Evolution?

SharkDad said:

Often times I agree with you. In this case it looks like no matter how many times the majority of people tell you they don't think there is anything unusual in what was done, you seem to be focused this gym possibly took a "privileged" approach. How many more examples do you need?

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I actually thought the response you quoted was a sign of my opinion wavering. I do at times get caught up in playing devil's advocate. But, a lot of my responses weren't a sign I wasn't listening, but really towards people going off on their own tangents, or not following the entire thread.

Seems like my question was answered. Is it evolution or stretching the boundaries of fairness? Based on feedback, the answer seems to be neither. It's not new, nor isolated to any single type of program.

I´ve read the entire thread and i have to admit that i don´t get the original question. Is it really about an unfair advantage that a coach planed to make changes if needed for her teams day 2 performance and was smart enough to rent a gym near the competition venue to give the girls a safe place to practise these planed changes?
I don´t know how many gyms are in driving reach of Disney and i definately don´t know how much it costs to rent 4 hours at a gym in Orlando. But all i know: If i had a chance to win worlds (!!!) i would do everything i can to prepare my team the best i can. And i guess every coach would.
Like mentioned before, there are many teams that have changes in case they will be needed. That the great coaching by CSP is talked about: Sure, Senior Elite won Worlds.
The ones that made changes, but did not win that gold medal are not as interesting as the story of SE working their buts off to achieve their goal.
Did they break the rules? No.
Did they rent all gyms in Orlando so no one else had the chance to practise at a gym? No.
Did they deserve the win? Yes. Like every other LAG team would have based on hard work and passion.
No unfair advantage in my opinion.

The Sixth said:

Being within guidelines =/= fair. If two people agree to a race, they both have the opportunity to go buy whatever car they want. If one can afford a Ferrari, but the other can only afford a Kia, how is that not an advantage?

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Of course that is an advantage. You could claim numerous advantages and disadvantages that all teams have. I never said it was not an advantage. It's just not an unfair one.

some people are just being ridiculous. what does it matter if you practice in a gym or not? same coaches, same team, just a different location. Just because we are a large gym doesnt mean were the only ones who can afford it. after us, smoed and elite were done, there were teams lining up to practice next; from other countries. We knew the whole time we would be practicing in a gym, its easier to focus and much safer than practicing on a field. Of course with being on the field comes the Smoed fans crowding around, and makes it hard for most people to focus, which gives someone a higher risk of injury. If we have the opportunity, why not? its a lot easier to be in a space with just the team and coaches and no other distractions to practice.

As for the competition itself, the judges dont care. we always hear our coaches tell us that the judges dont care what happens in the warmup room or if someone has a fluke on the mat; it all comes down to the scoresheets. if someone practices at a gym or if they practice on concrete, in the end it all doesnt matter. its about the 2 minutes and 30 seconds on the mat, and if someone isnt prepared, too bad. thats all it is.

Every single cali team ALSO practiced on the field. it makes no difference. Cali and CEA chose to go to a gym because its obviously a lot safer than practicing on the grass. when it comes down to health, i know cali does not risk anything. Its also easy to get distracted by the other teams that practice on the field. Every team, wether it be a large or small gym, does everything in their power to make the routine the best it can be. and if it means changing the whole routine, so be it. just because CEA and cali are big name gyms, doesnt mean its "unfair". we all work just as hard, and even harder, than every other gym and THATS how we get the titles. not because we had ONE practice in a gym before worlds.

The Sixth said:

I actually thought the response you quoted was a sign of my opinion wavering. I do at times get caught up in playing devil's advocate. But, a lot of my responses weren't a sign I wasn't listening, but really towards people going off on their own tangents, or not following the entire thread.

Seems like my question was answered. Is it evolution or stretching the boundaries of fairness? Based on feedback, the answer seems to be neither. It's not new, nor isolated to any single type of program.

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So i have kept an eye on this thread... would you have questioned this if they hadnt won?

Only i was on Team Scotland a good few years ago, we went to a gym to practise and nothing was ever said about it.

Why is it different for two teams? because one is high profile and won ?

scottish_cheerleader said:

So i have kept an eye on this thread... would you have questioned this if they hadnt won?

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And I've largely ignored the thread thinking my conclusion was clear.

But to answer your question, yes.

Why is it different for two teams? because one is high profile and won ?

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I never said it was.

Calicarriefornia said:

what does it matter if you practice in a gym or not?

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Cali and CEA chose to go to a gym because its obviously a lot safer than practicing on the grass.

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I really don't understand why Disney doesn't provide an indoor practice space at Disney. I think practicing outside is fun for the spectators but for the kids it must be hard to concentrate and there must be fears of injuries as well. Then this whole discussion would be over. I also admit I kind of like the idea that teams come with their best routine possible and are not just holding back due to fears of what the score sheet but thats not the world we live in so I understand why teams change things for day to day

hawkeye87 said:

I really don't understand why Disney doesn't provide an indoor practice space at Disney. I think practicing outside is fun for the spectators but for the kids it must be hard to concentrate and there must be fears of injuries as well. Then this whole discussion would be over. I also admit I kind of like the idea that teams come with their best routine possible and are not just holding back due to fears of what the score sheet but thats not the world we live in so I understand why teams change things for day to day

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Because Disney isn't worried about it. Between the name, ESPN ownership, they don't need too. They make their money on the motel and park passes.


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BamaCheerGuy said:

Because Disney isn't worried about it. Between the name, ESPN ownership, they don't need too. They make their money on the motel and park passes.


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I guess but they should be because all its is one thing to happen such as a stampede to get to the practice field and Disney is accountable

hawkeye87 said:

I guess but they should be because all its is one thing to happen such as a stampede to get to the practice field and Disney is accountable

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I agree. I hate the whole thing. Park passes, ticket prices. Find an amphitheater anything. Call Tampa!


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hawkeye87 said:

I guess but they should be because all its is one thing to happen such as a stampede to get to the practice field and Disney is accountable

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At the end of the day, there are so many youth sporting events @ Disney, are they going to build something just for practice to accommodate all??

SparkleSpankies said:

At the end of the day, there are so many youth sporting events @ Disney, are they going to build something just for practice to accommodate all??

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They should build something. It would be a proactive thing to do. All it really takes is one thing to happen during those practices and Disney could be held accountable in a lawsuit because an attorney could argue that they do not provide proper and safe practice facilities.

hawkeye87 said:

They should build something. It would be a proactive thing to do. All it really takes is one thing to happen during those practices and Disney could be held accountable in a lawsuit because an attorney could argue that they do not provide proper and safe practice facilities.

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But at the end of the day, other sports come prepared and they probably plan practice and workouts accordingly.. what makes cheerleaders different?

hawkeye87 said:

They should build something. It would be a proactive thing to do. All it really takes is one thing to happen during those practices and Disney could be held accountable in a lawsuit because an attorney could argue that they do not provide proper and safe practice facilities.

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It's not Disney's responsibility to do so unless it's in their contract (which it clearly isn't). EP provides safe warmup facilities in the Milkhouse/Jostens/etc and outside of that teams practice at the discretion of their coaches. I am sure many many people have been injured throughout 20+ years of competitions at Disney and practices on the fields. But they aren't liable and I would go as far as to say that any lawyer trying to say otherwise is getting in over their head because Disney's liability insurance + legal counsel is probably more than apt at dealing with someone trying to sue them for this type of thing (I'm sure it happens all the time with regular non-cheer affiliated park visitors).

cheer.coach said:

It's not Disney's responsibility to do so unless it's in their contract (which it clearly isn't). EP provides safe warmup facilities in the Milkhouse/Jostens/etc and outside of that teams practice at the discretion of their coaches. I am sure many many people have been injured throughout 20+ years of competitions at Disney and practices on the fields. But they aren't liable and I would go as far as to say that any lawyer trying to say otherwise is getting in over their head because Disney's liability insurance + legal counsel is probably more than apt at dealing with someone trying to sue them for this type of thing (I'm sure it happens all the time with regular non-cheer affiliated park visitors).

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I read somewhere that Disney is the most sued corporation in the world. Plus the fact that it isn't held liable to certain city laws since it is its on municipality. People forget that UCA Nationals is so popular because of Disney/ESPN, not the other way around.


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