All-Star Division I And Division Ii At Worlds - Big Gym Separation

Emily said:

I would actually hate to have D1/D2 for small and medium divisions. I don't feel that the medium divisions are big enough yet to make a D1/D2-separation, but rather think that for trying this the first year it should only be done for the small divisions.

Click to expand...

agreed

I think small gyms will still be feeder gyms, if not more. Most kids and parents, when they reach level 5, know the difference of winning a real national or a janky national, just like they will know if they win worlds in D1 or D2.

What I do think it will change, will be the numbers of kids going to the bigger gyms. Knowing they don't have a chance at a D1 title at Worlds, why bother staying loyal to a small gym in hopes it will grow to be D1 some day.

You're essentially asking the parents to pay for D2 with no hope of D1 all season.

i originally was all for this idea.. but i am starting to get mixed feelings. we spend months on here debating and arguing over the fact that there are too many "nationals" and it's too easy to get a title. so our solution is to make it also easier to get a worlds title?

i don't know about this.

I agree with having two divisions. But I don't think A gym with smaller satellite locations should add to it's total number of athletes. An example would be universities with branch campuses. While Pitt may be D1, it's branch campuses are not. They are D2 or D3 depending on size. They don't field the same number or caliber of athletes.

Owners would need to declare their gym and satellite locations at the beginning of the season. There would be no cross over athletes from D1 to D2 just as it pertains to other division sports.

This seems to be a way to legitimize our sport. We want so bad to be legitimized as a sport but are so against anything that would turn us in that direction. Time to open the doors and our minds to what would make this sport fit the "athletic mold."


The Fierce Board App! || iPhone || Android || Upgrade Your Account!

There are lots of us who don't have the option of attending a mega gym and while kudos to those that let their kids live with host families, etc. CP's dad is not going to be down with that at all ever, is from here, has a business and we are never moving, that is not an option for this family. (CP is the baby.) I have strong faith in our program at least to make us competitive when CP gets to SR5.

My point is there is a lot of places with cheer that there is nowhere to feed into, right?

I am much more in favor of any steps towards true "national" championships, especially if it means we can take the title away from the other 94726272902 national championships.

That's one if the reasons I loved the Summit...it felt like a true national championship. And I'm pretty sure that the winners of youth 2 aren't going around claiming to be the best cheer team out there.

Another crazy thought, what if D2 teams were capped somewhere lower than 20 athletes? I think the issue with what may be common with some D2 gyms is having 14 true level 5 athletes and having to use high level 4 / almost level 5 athletes to fill up the team. I think this is where many level 5 athletes leave small gyms for larger programs. (Just trying to think out of the box here...)




The Fierce Board App! || iPhone || Android || Upgrade Your Account!

notyourcheermom said:

There are lots of us who don't have the option of attending a mega gym and while kudos to those that let their kids live with host families, etc. CP's dad is not going to be down with that at all ever, is from here, has a business and we are never moving, that is not an option for this family. (CP is the baby.) I have strong faith in our program at least to make us competitive when CP gets to SR5.

My point is there is a lot of places with cheer that there is nowhere to feed into, right?

Click to expand...

Very true! So would you prefer your gym be restricted to only compete as D2 since it's small? What if you want to compete as D1 but this small/large, D1/D2 rule is enforced?

The sad part is that as we debate, it makes no difference because this stuff is decided way before we hear anything about it..
The BOD needs no ones approval but their own and so a division system at worlds is what we will have.
All that's left now is to hear the specifics, understand how divisions are decided, and watch everyone figure out how to get the hell out of division I. Because why pay your dues when there is an easier road and all the trophies are the same size. This is the lesson that the USASF is leaving behind....................................Oh and that crop tops are for houchies

JumpingJackFlash said:

Very true! So would you prefer your gym be restricted to only compete as D2 since it's small? What if you want to compete as D1 but this small/large, D1/D2 rule is enforced?

Click to expand...

I'm probably the wrong person to ask that. I'm a cheer mom of a Small Y2 Summit National Champion on an AL bid from NCA, super tough comp. Only time our team came in 2nd all year. I think 175/200 is a good split in size. I have faith in our program to give us a shot at D1 if there is a choice one day. I would hope you wouldn't have to stay D2 forever and I don't think a paid bid should be the only deciding factor on whether you would want to try D1. But Worlds is comparative scoring and not what I have any experience with and I only caught on to that this year, so I really am not sure.

I have no solutions, just trying, hopefully, to contribute a little in the discussion.

I think the division split should be only at worlds... don't extend it onto other competitions. The gyms that would be "D2" are already managing to get bids (even those that have no chance) so I don't think we need it at other comps.
For criteria:
Less than 200-250 athletes on allstar teams across all locations
Only 1 senior worlds team (eliminates the international problem)
If a D2 team can get a full or partial paid bid, or medaled at worlds the season prior, they can choose to join D1. But once they get into D1 they can't switch back and forth. This way a team can't just be like "Oh hey let's see what happens if we try D1 and when we lose we can switch back," b/c they have to a) be successful in D2 first and b) Make a commitment to D1

notyourcheermom said:

I'm probably the wrong person to ask that. I'm a cheer mom of a Small Y2 Summit National Champion on an AL bid from NCA, super tough comp. Only time our team came in 2nd all year. I think 175/200 is a good split in size. I have faith in our program to give us a shot at D1 if there is a choice one day. I would hope you wouldn't have to stay D2 forever and I don't think a paid bid should be the only deciding factor on whether you would want to try D1. But Worlds is comparative scoring and not what I have any experience with and I only caught on to that this year, so I really am not sure.

I have no solutions, just trying, hopefully, to contribute a little in the discussion.

Click to expand...

Congratulations on your win! While I feel that small gyms do have a bigger hurdle to be competitive at Worlds, I don't think that your gym size should restrict who compete against there. It sounds as if your gym should be one of the reasons why this D1/D2 option isn't the best way to take the sport. If your gym doesn't grow in numbers, but just has a steady amount of younger athletes coming in and older eventually aging out, you'd still be restricted to D2 at Worlds, no matter if your future S5 team is the bomb.com or not. I believe that ANY program has the possibility of being competitive with the "big dogs" at Worlds. I do believe as well, this new possible rule would put a cap on how far small gyms would go to try to make it happen....when D2 gives them an easy way out.

Right now, everyone and their mother competes at Worlds. Losing doesn't feel great, though neither does winning because of the "grade" curve. This is Worlds we're talking about, correct?

Smaller gyms will keep losing athletes to bigger gyms because there are no such thing as try-outs anymore. It is just sign ups! There's no stopping a gym for having 5 teams in one division, as long as they have the athletes.

Doesn't matter if craptastic allstars has a d1/d2 or not, if I have a full, I'm making the drive to a mega gym where I will attempt to be on a elite team, unless I get turned away cause there no spot for me.

is it just me or is allstar cheer slowly losing its competitiveness..
first the summit was formed this year so athletes that are not of "worlds caliber" (skill AND age) can have their worlds experience.
secondly the champions league was introduced, and it was mentioned a few times that one of the main goals of the event is to show sportsmanship and working together
and now third, we are thinking of adding a division into worlds so small gyms have a better chance to win a worlds title.

i mean it is nice, but competition is what our sport is mainly based on. yes yes its also about friendships, discipline, goals etc, but what is it that we all practice year round for? competitions

Reading this thread is painful. Everyone is so concerned with 2014, instead of looking ahead to 2020. If something isn't done, this industry is going to turn into 10 different programs with 25 different locations competing against each other. Large gyms are slowly going to monopolize the industry and the sport will end up dying completely. I 100% support this. Thank you, Les-- it's great seeing someone trying to do what's best for the industry AS A WHOLE.