All-Star Division I And Division Ii At Worlds - Big Gym Separation

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I don't think you're missing anything. My point was just that while not ALL larger gyms have more talent than ALL smaller gyms, that is typically how it is. Larger gyms have larger athlete pools. If you look at the Top 3 in each division at Worlds this year, the huge majority (if not all, I'm not going to go check) are from large gyms.

.... and most of those gyms are taking multiple teams to Worlds. CA took roughly the top 25% of our athletes to Worlds last year.
 
Okay, this will be my last comment on the subject. I agree with your comments except the last one.....this split is supposed to make an even playing field between small gyms and large gyms.....it is not about the skills. If we make it about skills, then we will be setting the presicence that D1 is better than D2, and in that case you are right. Kids will still switch/commute to the larger gyms because even if they win in D2, they will be looked down upon, or looked at as 2nd best.....which it think defeats the purpose of this proposition.

But it's not supposed to level the playing field between divisions. It's supposed to make sure teams can successfully compete with other teams who are on the same playing field instead of with teams who are in a whole different league and will beat them by huge margins.
 
But it's not supposed to level the playing field between divisions. It's supposed to make sure teams can successfully compete with other teams who are on the same playing field instead of with teams who are in a whole different league and will beat them by huge margins.
I agree, it's not leveling the playing field, it's adding another playing field beside it
 
If I had to take the top 20 small senior teams from this past year and decipher between d1/d2 this is how I would group them. But then again, who am I to say whose d1 / d2.

D1:
California Allstars
Cheer Extreme Allstars
ICE Allstars
Pacific Coast Magic
Champion Cheer
Green Bay Elite
Woodlands Elite

D2:
CheerForce
Central Jersey Allstars
JuST Cheer Allstars
Greensboro Allstars
Orlando Allstars
Cheers & More
AZ Power
American Elite Allstars
Ohio Extreme
Maryland Twisters
Cheer Express
World Cup Suns

Woodlands didnt make finals, cja did. i dont like this. world cup is a power gym, so is twisters, greensboro made finals, cheerforce is traditionally great. this d2 thing looks awful
 
HotCheer is a small gym, they did just fine coming in 4th
MACS is a small gym and came in 3rd at worlds, they did just fine.
GBE Lime is a small gym and they're always a favorite.
There were so many gyms I had never heard of making it to finals this year that are I'm guessing small, def not a powerhouse program, along with teams from powerhouse gyms who did not make it to finals.

Being a D2 world champion sounds extremely lame. There are enough teams that compete at worlds that shouldn't even be level 5 in the first place. If there are teams that are out of their league, there's a reason, THEY DONT BELONG AT WORLDS. Im so against this, not to mention I doubt there will be a huge crowd to watch and support a division 2. I hope this never happens. You are not a World Champion if you cant beat the best in the world in Level 5 division 1, this is terribly wrong and gives the term World Champion a bad and inaccurate name. If this does happen I hope this Champions League thing replaces worlds because being a WORLD CHAMPION will soon be just as good and basic as being a NATIONAL CHAMPION at many events which people hate already.

Yes college has Division 1/2 and 3. No college does not have levels. If your not skilled enough to play D1 football you go down. In cheer if your not skilled enough you go down a level. Theres your equal.If you cant run the 40 yard dash in under 4.3 sec then its loke somone not having a full, so you should go to level 4 because that is where your level is. Colleges wont take a wide reciever who runs a 4.8 sec 40.

Go to NCA and dont sandbag in level4 and then complain your not a contending world champion at worlds a couple months later.

I'll be the first to not watch this division.
 
If this assumption were incorrect we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Respect due.
My comment as to the assumption is taking into consideration the home grown talent that now migrate to the large gyms once the reach level 5 so they can have a shot at a world's title. If this migration did not exist, I do not believe the "skills gap" would be nearly as huge as it currently is.
as #icame2WERQ post indicated, lets say that list is somewhat accurate, are we saying gyms like CJA and Worldcup do not have as much talent as the D1 gyms listed? So I see this idea of division as a way to stop the migration.....however, if we are already putting it out there that D1 is better than D2 we are invalidating their efforts. This is just my oponion. And I would love to see CJA or Woldcup get a shot at the world title......Are we already saying if one of these teams won the D2 division, they are second class? If the decision is made to split the division, the least we can do is to make these young people feel that the worked as hard as any other and deserve that championship just as any other team.
 
If this happens I see it being the beginning of the end for Worlds No Doubt!!! The real winners for example the highest scorers of the competition deserve to be THE only World Champion in their division not have some weird shared title with a not as qualified team. It will just not mean as much and if you can't see that you must have not have been a competitor in your life. It needs to be left alone.
 
Respect due.
My comment as to the assumption is taking into consideration the home grown talent that now migrate to the large gyms once the reach level 5 so they can have a shot at a world's title. If this migration did not exist, I do not believe the "skills gap" would be nearly as huge as it currently is.
as #icame2WERQ post indicated, lets say that list is somewhat accurate, are we saying gyms like CJA and Worldcup do not have as much talent as the D1 gyms listed? So I see this idea of division as a way to stop the migration.....however, if we are already putting it out there that D1 is better than D2 we are invalidating their efforts. This is just my oponion. And I would love to see CJA or Woldcup get a shot at the world title......Are we already saying if one of these teams won the D2 division, they are second class? If the decision is made to split the division, the least we can do is to make these young people feel that the worked as hard as any other and deserve that championship just as any other team.

I agree with the first bolded statement, but the reality is people are leaving migrating and we have to deal with reality.

We reward results, not hard work. Yes, it takes hard work to get results, but there's no "Hardest Working Team" trophy.

According the the Board notes, the DII would be offered to gyms under a certain size, not an assessment of their talent, so the split isn't directly saying a DII team is less talented, instead saying a DII gym is smaller.
 
My thing is this: there are plenty of smaller programs who make top ten every year and do incredibly well. Look at small coed for example. Three teams in the top 5 are small programs.
 
My thing is this: there are plenty of smaller programs who make top ten every year and do incredibly well. Look at small coed for example. Three teams in the top 5 are small programs.


Not disagreeing, just wondering. Do you know if they are under the 175-200 (somewhere around there) number that has been discussed in this thread as "small." I'm just interested to know who you're thinking of, if they are just smaller than most of the competitors at their level or if they would truly qualify as D2 if it was split by gym size. I think 175 is a small number but I'm no expert on average gym size of the teams competing at Worlds.
 
Not disagreeing, just wondering. Do you know if they are under the 175-200 (somewhere around there) number that has been discussed in this thread as "small." I'm just interested to know who you're thinking of, if they are just smaller than most of the competitors at their level or if they would truly qualify as D2 if it was split by gym size. I think 175 is a small number but I'm no expert on average gym size of the teams competing at Worlds.
Macs is smaller, Hot Cheer is small, and fifth place ECC is small.
All have under 200 athletes I believe. Only one which I see being over is Macs.

And when going into different divisions, CJA are smaller and placed top 10, Greensboro placed top 10, Stealth won worlds, USA Starz made Semis in Intl Coed, three of the top ten finalists in Medium Senior were from gyms of 225 or less.

So it seems like there are actually gyms who are smaller that can succeed and are doing very well with what they have.

And when it comes to teams competing at worlds, I'd say 225-250 would be a good cutoff, otherwise there will literally be no one in division two.
 
Not disagreeing, just wondering. Do you know if they are under the 175-200 (somewhere around there) number that has been discussed in this thread as "small." I'm just interested to know who you're thinking of, if they are just smaller than most of the competitors at their level or if they would truly qualify as D2 if it was split by gym size. I think 175 is a small number but I'm no expert on average gym size of the teams competing at Worlds.
And additionally, Champion Cheer have 175-200 athletes and placed top 5, and Mavericks also made semis in Intl Coed.

So that's 12 teams just off the top my head.
 
Macs is smaller, Hot Cheer is small, and fifth place ECC is small.
All have under 200 athletes I believe. Only one which I see being over is Macs.

And when going into different divisions, CJA are smaller and placed top 10, Greensboro placed top 10, Stealth won worlds, USA Starz made Semis in Intl Coed, three of the top ten finalists in Medium Senior were from gyms of 225 or less.

So it seems like there are actually gyms who are smaller that can succeed and are doing very well with what they have.

And when it comes to teams competing at worlds, I'd say 225-250 would be a good cutoff, otherwise there will literally be no one in division two.

for some reason i am very into the numbers of these gyms... but your post has peaked my interest in something new. the "smaller" gyms doing well and placing in the upper halves of their divisions seem to be from less "cheer populated" regions. Green Bay, Washington State, Arizona, etc. don't have as many options to choose from within say a 2hour drive.. thus, making a more concentrated pot of elite athletes and making them much more successful.

this is really a separate geography/migration topic i guess, so i'll stop here, but still an interesting observation.
 
for some reason i am very into the numbers of these gyms... but your post has peaked my interest in something new. the "smaller" gyms doing well and placing in the upper halves of their divisions seem to be from less "cheer populated" regions. Green Bay, Washington State, Arizona, etc. don't have as many options to choose from within, say a 2hour, drive.. thus, making a more concentrated pot of elite athletes and making them much more successful.

this is really a separate geography/migration topic i guess, so i'll stop here, but still an interesting observation.
It's funny, as I was posting I thought the same thing. I guess the only exceptions would be Champion, Stealth, and CJA (and if we're getting really technical Cheer Station and Greensboro). And possibly Hot Cheer but I have no clue of the surrounding gyms/area.
 
I still think girls will leave their d2 gyms to win the d1 worlds title. I feel like it doesn't matter how "loyal" you are to your gym. If you have the skills, you want to be a part of the big famous gym. I would rather be a Shooting Star than some girl on the d2 team at craptastic all stars... just my opinion.


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