All-Star Division I And Division Ii At Worlds - Big Gym Separation

kristenthegreat said:

Heck, make it open and just have a score minimum. You must attend 3 worlds-bid comps and score an AVERAGE of 'xyz' on the worlds scoresheet. A number that is realistic.

Again- does anyone have the link to the worlds score doc? I wanted to check something.

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BlueCat said:

Welcome to Google Docs

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You come in so handy some times.

kristenthegreat said:

Heck, make it open and just have a score minimum. You must attend 3 worlds-bid comps and score an AVERAGE of 'xyz' on the worlds scoresheet. A number that is realistic.

Again- does anyone have the link to the worlds score doc? I wanted to check something.

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i've been saying this forever. my number would be they have to break a 200 on the scoresheet. that is GENEROUS, but manyyyy teams don't break it or even come near it.

BlueCat said:

I actually don't think that there are too many teams at Worlds, I just think that the venue is far too small. If the event was in an adequate venue, I would even be OK with doing away with at large bids, and just let anyone sign up. The bid system is complicated and adds unnecessary friction to the whole process, IMO.

I would also let Event Producers give $ towards "paid bids" at their discretion. The only limitation is that they have to announce the amount of and process for their paid bids ahead of time.

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Thank you thank you thank you!!! I have said this a million times!!!

After reading all of these pages I'm still confused. A d1/d2 split is wanted but winning isn't the purpose it's so that teams can compete and be at the same venue as "elite" programs? This just doesn't make sense to me at ALL. Is this not what is taking place now?

I feel the main reason teams aren't as competitive as they would like to be is because they are competing out of level. I was at Worlds and Summit and I saw MANY gyms that I wasn't familiar with the name of the gym do really well. Did they all win, no. Did they do well, yes. Don't get mad because you don't win, work harder and choose the correct level. Every team can't win every competition. There must be a winner and there must be losers. It's why it's a competition.

In addition please, please, please ANY small gym please anytime you get a chance speak to anyone at GBE. Their perspective is so inspiring!!!


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BlueCat said:

Welcome to Google Docs

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This is awesome!
Does anyone know why oh why Medium Coed final Worlds scores for 2103 seem to be nonexistent? Does anyone have any of them?

kristenthegreat said:

Heck, make it open and just have a score minimum. You must attend 3 worlds-bid comps and score an AVERAGE of 'xyz' on the worlds scoresheet. A number that is realistic.

Again- does anyone have the link to the worlds score doc? I wanted to check something.

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I would not be in favor of having to go to 3 bid comps, I'd rather go to one comp of my choosing to earn a bid and then be able to pick the rest of my competition schedule based on dates, prices and locations

CGAcheer said:

I would not be in favor of having to go to 3 bid comps, I'd rather go to one comp of my choosing to earn a bid and then be able to pick the rest of my competition schedule based on dates, prices and locations

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I picked 3 only because newcheerdad mentioned it.

I looked over the scores from the last few years. The lowest score that made finals was 150, and it was in an international division. Lowest in a senior division finals was 199. The lowest score in any senior division non-finals was 136 I believe. Just to give people an idea about score spectrum.

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I totally dig the idea of removing the bids and letting it be an anyone sign up event. Then maybe the d1/d2 split wouldn't be necessary. To me, removing the "prestige" of getting that golden ticket just to go would eliminate a lot of the problems worlds causes. Not that it would eliminate all problems but combined with the qualifying score suggestion I think you've just solved some of the bigger issues I see with Worlds. That is a more equalizing foothold for smaller gyms IMO.


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cupieqt said:

I totally dig the idea of removing the bids and letting it be an anyone sign up event. Then maybe the d1/d2 split wouldn't be necessary. To me, removing the "prestige" of getting that golden ticket just to go would eliminate a lot of the problems worlds causes. Not that it would eliminate all problems but combined with the qualifying score suggestion I think you've just solved some of the bigger issues I see with Worlds. That is a more equalizing foothold for smaller gyms IMO.


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Without needing a bid, the attendance at bid events would decline, even if they still offered paid bids

CGAcheer said:

Without needing a bid, the attendance at bid events would decline, even if they still offered paid bids

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That's why you need the "must attend three bid event" rule - that would mitigate a lot of those issues.

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newcheerdad said:

That's why you need the "must attend three bid event" rule - that would mitigate a lot of those issues.

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In my opinion, that would successfully reduce the size of worlds.

If I were to take the 3 worlds bid comps that are closest to me (at least I wouldn't have to fly- imagine Idaho Allstars trying to pull this off) There are two events in Orlando and two in Atlanta and nothing else remotely close. The 2 Orlando events are both about $250 and the Atlanta Events are $125 and $150. Atlanta is about 5 hours from us and Orlando is 4.

I would have to essentially pay at a minimum $525 (which happens to be our comp budget for 7 competitions) to buy the right to spend another $250+

As it is now, I can put one of those competitions on my schedule and earn a bid and then pick the rest of my schedule according to location, price, event size, date, production etc. Instead of having to take out great travel comps to other locations because they are not bid events.

newcheerdad said:

That's why you need the "must attend three bid event" rule - that would mitigate a lot of those issues.

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What makes it a bid event if there are no bids? It would be more like "must attend three from this list" but you'd have to add more events to the list. Otherwise the price just keeps going up.... like @cgacheer said, it increases the cost and may take away the gyms ability to attend their favorite non-bid comps - because theres no time or money to go to those.

newcheerdad said:

That's why you need the "must attend three bid event" rule - that would mitigate a lot of those issues.

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Not every area has easy access to 3 bid events. However, this is the type of decision that is primarily made by event producers with bid events. I'm sure they would love to make it a rule that teams had to attend their events instead of the other event producers'.

We go to at least 3 bid events anyway that are fairly close, so it wouldn't really affect us much. There are some gyms that would have great difficulty making that work.

IMO: requiring 3 bid events:

I definitely wouldn't want to limit anyone to their choices of comp schedules so I like what @cheernerd5678 said about adding to the list of making more events "bid-worthy". If there won't technically be bids, then score a certain percentage at usasf sanctioned comps and there's your Worlds qualifying criteria.


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RulesGuy said:

While I love all of the top, elite, large gyms as much as anyone else. Those are the gyms I would rather not hear from. (Sorry top gyms, I don't mean that as an insult.)

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OK - I feel I may need to apologize for my original post that included the above statement. I feel this may have been misinterpreted or more likely not worded in the best possible way and I take full responsibility and apologize to any of the "top, elite, large gyms that may have found this offensive. I haven't read all of the pages on this thread but I have read most. I noticed that Jody (Bluecat) felt this was implying that large gyms do not get a voice in this conversation and that is not what I intended at all. I was hoping my first and last sentence in the above quote was enough of a disclaimer but after reading it again from a large gyms standpoint, I can see the unintended slight. I can also promise you that I NEVER called any of the large gyms "evil" as it has been interpreted. My only point was I know many conversations in this industry are dominated by the top gyms and I am really interested in getting plenty of feedback from EVERYONE in the industry. So, again, I apologize to Bluecat and anyone else who felt this was an inappropriate comment.

I can tell you that we are having some great conversations about this at the Regional Meetings. I hope you all are having a great and safe summer.
Les