All-Star Cheer Companies Affiliated With/owning Gyms

fierceeflyeer said:

I know that at one point it was the owners of Cheerforce (Chris and Frank), PCT (Nat) and UCC (Doug) all owned and started it together. I know a lot of things have been changed over the past year and I'm not sure if this is entirely true anymore. However, I do know for a fact that Frank and possibly still Chris are still involved in Cheer Evolution.

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Nope. I am Nat. And I've never, ever, ever owned part of Evolution or Alliance.

BlueCat said:

It still floors me that anyone thinks it's OK for a company to have an ownership interest in some of the teams competing at it's own events. That pretty much defines conflict of interest.

NOTE: Accusing someone of having a conflict of interest is NOT the same thing as saying you think they are openly dishonest or that blatant cheating has occurred.

Example: I am not officially coaching Cheetahs this season, so theoretically, I would be available to judge Worlds. Do you think anyone would have an issue with me judging Large Coed? How about just running the warmup room, setting up the schedule, or tallying the results? Even though I think Victor, Courtney, Tannaz, & Happy know me pretty well, they would all be screaming bloody murder if they saw me on the judges stand. That doesn't mean they necessarily think I'm dishonest or that they don't "trust" me - they just know that it would an incredibly blatant conflict of interest. I would own one of the gyms (hopefully) competing in the event.

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I wouldn't mind if you ran the warmup room. Would probably make sure it was outfitted with apple friendly stereos and that be great!

Just to throw this out there...this is very common in other sports. Example: Virtually every dance competition my daughter competes in is run/put on by a dance school also competing there, with the exception of regional, national, and world championship events. They dont use their own judges. They pull from the same list of judges every competition uses. If it wasn't done, no one would have anywhere to compete. There are no event producers for irish dance.

Is the issue the conflict of interest, or the lack of transparency? (Sorry - I have read this whole thread, but it was a while back and I didn't reread tonight) I do agree that it should be readily available information - it's very clear when you go to a feis (irish dance comp) who it's being put on by, and who is competing from the host school.

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Dont these new invitational comps fall into this category?

Mom Jeans said:

Dont these new invitational comps fall into this category?

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Started for gyms by gyms kinda thing?

Mom Jeans said:

Dont these new invitational comps fall into this category?

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In a sense, yes. (I assume you are talking about Champions League - I don't think the others are "gym owned".) However, the competing teams are all essentially in the same boat. Each gym "owns" a similar portion of the event as the teams they are competing against. Also, no gym has anything close to a controlling majority ownership of the event itself.

To clarify, I wouldn't have any issue at all if a company hosted a competition specifically for it's own gyms. (ex: Varsity hosting a Varsity-gym competition)

Just-a-Mom said:

Just to throw this out there...this is very common in other sports. Example: Virtually every dance competition my daughter competes in is run/put on by a dance school also competing there, with the exception of regional, national, and world championship events. They dont use their own judges. They pull from the same list of judges every competition uses. If it wasn't done, no one would have anywhere to compete. There are no event producers for irish dance.

Is the issue the conflict of interest, or the lack of transparency? (Sorry - I have read this whole thread, but it was a while back and I didn't reread tonight) I do agree that it should be readily available information - it's very clear when you go to a feis (irish dance comp) who it's being put on by, and who is competing from the host school.

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I think it's a bit of both, tbh. As one kinda gives the impression of bleeding into another (similar to BlueCat's Cheetahs/Worlds analogy).

I had no idea GT was owned by Varsity. Now, every time one of their comps rolls around, my brain is going to do a double check of everything. Not because I necessarily mistrust them, but because it was never out in the open. Was it hidden? Was it one of those 'failed-to-mention' things? I like to believe the best in people when I can, but I'm also suspicious (NYC baby). Now I have that slight suspicion..

kristenthegreat said:

I think it's a bit of both, tbh. As one kinda gives the impression of bleeding into another (similar to BlueCat's Cheetahs/Worlds analogy).

I had no idea GT was owned by Varsity. Now, every time one of their comps rolls around, my brain is going to do a double check of everything. Not because I necessarily mistrust them, but because it was never out in the open. Was it hidden? Was it one of those 'failed-to-mention' things? I like to believe the best in people when I can, but I'm also suspicious (NYC baby). Now I have that slight suspicion..

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So how would you feel if it was "The Gym Tyme Southern States Invitational" and several GT teams were competing at the event? If it was presented as actually their event, with no hidden info... would that still be taboo (for lack of a better word)?

I'm really just curious, so I hope I'm not coming off as being snarky (just here...other threads I'm totally being snarky! ). I think if we hadn't started irish dance, I'd feel completely different; but now we're in an activity where this is the norm, not the exception.

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Years ago I worked for a gym that owned a competition company. We did not let our teams compete at that event because we knew it was conflict of interest. Now it would of been easier and way cheaper for the parents to attend our events as their local events; but with us working every area in the event, there is no way that should happen. Now we did let them exhibition a few times just to put the routines on the floor and then we even stopped that.

My point being if us as a little no name gym (at that time) could easily see it as conflict of interest, why doesn't Varsity? My belief is they know it is a conflict of interest but who really is going to stop them? I guess they feel like if you can't prove they gave favor or extra considerations for their teams....so what if if it don't look right, smell right, or feel right?

@Just-a-Mom if EVERYYTHING was out in the open about the connection and I choose to go fine. I am going with full knowledge and enough common sense to know the cards...see what I did there....may be stacked against me. The problem is in scenarios like you describe many times they are not as forthcoming because they know if everybody knew ahead of time, many people would not come to compete.

Just-a-Mom said:

So how would you feel if it was "The Gym Tyme Southern States Invitational" and several GT teams were competing at the event? If it was presented as actually their event, with no hidden info... would that still be taboo (for lack of a better word)?

I'm really just curious, so I hope I'm not coming off as being snarky (just here...other threads I'm totally being snarky! ). I think if we hadn't started irish dance, I'd feel completely different; but now we're in an activity where this is the norm, not the exception.

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If they were still competing? It would be better. I wouldn't go (so I can see why they'd hide, but yeah).

Trust me, I know when you're being snarky.

It is worth noting that I don't actually believe that NCA or other Varsity events are rigged. If we believed that, we wouldn't spend 100K a year going to their events and buying their products. I also don't expect them to sell their gyms just so they look a little less "Big Brother". I mainly wish they were much more up front about who they own and control.

BlueCat said:

It is worth noting that I don't actually believe that NCA or other Varsity events are rigged. If we believed that, we wouldn't spend 100K a year going to their events and buying their products. I also don't expect them to sell their gyms just so they look a little less "Big Brother". I mainly wish they were much more up front about who they own and control.

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Outside of Bangkok competing with an illegal amount of boys I don't think there has been a major rigged event in a long time.

tumbleyoda said:

@Just-a-Mom if EVERYYTHING was out in the open about the connection and I choose to go fine. I am going with full knowledge and enough common sense to know the cards...see what I did there....may be stacked against me. The problem is in scenarios like you describe many times they are not as forthcoming because they know if everybody knew ahead of time, many people would not come to compete.

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People went to Spirit Sports for years knowing the deck was stacked against them... What took so long to figure it out is beyond me. And when people did figure it out, the competition went kaput...

Ok, I've finally read this whole thread. The only thing I keep thinking is, why is Varsity (or any other EP) allowed to own a gym in the first place? The conflict of interest just screams bloody murder here - unless, as others have suggested, the Varsity-owned gyms NEVER compete at a Varsity competition.

I know I'm new to the sport but that just makes me shake my head. But seriously, please educate me here. Am I missing something?

king said:

Outside of Bangkok competing with an illegal amount of boys I don't think there has been a major rigged event in a long time.

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Can a company that owns a gym award a bid to the gym they own?