2017-18 Usasf Cheer Rules & Age Grid

[cheer25mom]

The bottom age ranges probably did need to happen but a lot of smaller programs (like mine) are going to suffer greatly.

I afraid smaller programs a re going to have to start making the decision to either turn kids away, put older kids without the skills on higher level teams, or place athletes below level because of their age.

 

[catlady]

and i agree with that. The tiny show division addresses this well while still allowing room for children of that age to participate. No 3-4 year old can now participate on a team that does those skills. These new age divisions do nothing however to prevent a child over 6 form being on a Y4 or Y5 team team, which is where the largest safety risk for the rest of it exists. Why? because the mega gyms that field those teams would have a fit. IF they REALLY want to address safety without killing small gyms in the process, there should be a level cap by age. NO GYM should be able to offer a Y5 to 6-8 year olds if they don't feel level 5 skills are safe for 6-8 year olds. If they feel kids are too young to safely perform the skills required for the level, they shouldn't be eligible to compete at that level. That would allow for both athlete safety and the ability for smaller gyms to retain higher level athletes.

They could, but will they? They haven't done a lot about it at this point. If a skill isn't safe for a 6 year old, it shouldn't matter what age division they are performing it in, it still isn't safe. Why even have a Y5 if they cannot perform level 5 skills? Why not cap youth at level 3 or 4. The twisting tumbling and higher level stunts are really where these injuries start being an issue. I don't think USASF will ever eliminate twisting from youth or junior level teams. Honestly, I don't think anyone under 10-11 has any business on a level 4 or 5 team. Its too much stress on a growing body. It would take a LOT of guts on the part of the USASF to enforce that. A lot of parents of little cheerlebrities would be spending a lot less money on private lessons to get their baby that full, and there would be a lot less pressure to advance skills quickly at all costs. I think it would allow for a stronger focus on technique and foundations in basics and lead to far less injury and fewer mental blocks.

You keep asking if they will address it. They did address the back walkover under 5, you even acknowledged it. And, a year or two ago they addressed some level of youth no longer being able to do one mans. You keep mentioning capping levels which IMO is tossing the baby out with the bath water because, kids are getting skills at younger ages and AS has gained popularity. If it comes out that it is detrimental for 10 year olds and under to repetitively do jumps to tuck or standing fulls, they could remove those skills from those age groups, instead of having to remove it from the entire level. I don't know for a fact that's where they are heading but, it makes sense now that there is a huge focus on children sport injuries, that pediatricians, ortho's, and PT's are going to voice concerns on appropriate and inappropriate skills/drills by age development in all sports. Our neighborhood blog has people constantly asking for good surgeons and PT's for their kids ACL/MCL tears, knees, and elbows and it's rarely because of cheer.

 

[quitthedrama]

They already have a policy: US All Star Federation

I understand that this is a slippery slope the USASF has to navigate, but this rule doesn't seem fair to me. It would make more sense to follow the same guidelines that the IOC does.

 

[cheer25mom]

You keep asking if they will address it. They did address the back walkover under 5, you even acknowledged it. And, a year or two ago they addressed some level of youth no longer being able to do one mans. You keep mentioning capping levels which IMO is tossing the baby out with the bath water because, kids are getting skills at younger ages and AS has gained popularity. If it comes out that it is detrimental for 10 year olds and under to repetitively do jumps to tuck or standing fulls, they could remove those skills from those age groups, instead of having to remove it from the entire level. I don't know for a fact that's where they are heading but, it makes sense now that there is a huge focus on children sport injuries, that pediatricians, ortho's, and PT's are going to voice concerns on appropriate and inappropriate skills/drills by age development in all sports. Our neighborhood blog has people constantly asking for good surgeons and PT's for their kids ACL/MCL tears, knees, and elbows and it's rarely because of cheer.

Given that large gyms take so much pride in fielding these young high level teams and the fact that those few huge gyms have such a large influence over the industry because of their purchasing power, no I don't think that there will ever be steps taken to eliminate them. The changes they HAVE made are low risk, limited impact changes, but limiting top level young athletes in much more of an economic risk. It's just my opinion on the subject.

You said that the age floors were doing something to address the injuries you named. I am saying that they don't because they don't restrict young children from performing the skills that lead to them. They just make it harder for them to do it at a small gym. If they were truly meant to address safety then they should have prevented the skills entirely before a certain age. A level cap would do that, and that is what they have essentially done in response to the information that bridging can be harmful to young children. Restricting 3-4 year olds to a pre-team doesn't have nearly the financial impact on programs as telling 8-10 year olds to stop working fulls, or stop doing kick double baskets. Do that, and you are restrict an large part of a large gym's revenue stream. Fewer moms are willing to pour big dollars into cheer if their baby can't be level 5. I just don't think it will happen because of the economics involved.

As to "throwing the baby out with the bathwater", it doesn't make sense to me to strip y5 down to the point that it is safe for a 6 year old and still call it level 5. It would no longer be a true level 5 team. Why not just cap youth at whatever that safe level is?

 

[AjfromOpals]

Why the venom being spewed at Y5?

We ARE talking about young children here. As the parent of a veteran on a Y5 team (and I can't believe I can say that) I cherish every moment Droplet has left in this division.

Have you ever been the parent of an 8 year old with a full? Maybe you have. Or maybe your child took a more average track. Lots of years in cheer have given me the wisdom to know that ALL paths are ok and wonderful in their own ways and an 8 year old with a full doesn't always a 12 year old on a worlds team make. Conversely, just because your child isn't an 8 year old with a full doesn't mean they can't be a 12 year old on a worlds team if that is what they want. There's something to be said about being with your people and my 11 year olds people are not the worlds kids who throw the same tumbling she does. She is a little girl!

Tumbling came easy for Droplet from the beginning. She worked ferociously to surpass the expectations they had for her at her Russian gymnastics gym that had a small cheer program. She had to perform 835 different versions of perfect back handspring before anyone ever said tuck. She threw her first full there a few years later with those same coaches.

I could go on and on. There's probably no bigger proponent of the Y5 division currently around running their mouth than myself. My now 11 year old is not a flyer. She baaaaaaarely squeaked in to be the shortest J5r base on our team after we lost a few. She just doesn't fit. But she has every restricted specialty to full, standing tumbling to full, etc etc. and has had them for some time.

Because of her size, Y5 is HER home. Youth Elite was the first ever team that ever gave her a true purpose. It's the first team she's ever been just the right size. I cannot express what this team and this division have done for her. It can suck to compete against yourself and it's not the same to take home the jacket when you don't beat anyone to get it. We still treasure every single one though. They are a reminder of how she got here. A reminder of why she stays. A symbol of the sacrifices that come with being an incredibly self driven child who in 6 years of cheer has never looked at me and said "mom, I don't want to go today." She's different than most and that's ok. But in my opinion it's these kids like Droplet that the division was made for and even though we will leave it behind after this year, it would break my heart to see it die.

She's surrounded by 7-11 year olds who tumble at her level. It's incredible. My child didnt have the maturity for this team back then but there are very young children on youth elite with incredibly old souls. It is a magical, once in a lifetime team for these kids and it makes me wish that when those new age grids had come out that they'd given her just one more year as a butterfly.

Not all of us compete under level stunts and tumbling with janky technique and many of these kids grow up to be the very best in the world. Let's not make such statements. If you're ever around when butterflies compete, mine would love to meet you.. skeptic or fan. Id be willing to bet it won't take
long to win you over.

115% agree with this! After watching the twinkles documentary and the division in general, I think there's absolutley no doubt that y5 is necessary. As for competing against no one 90% of the time, This is not to be rude or disrespectful in any way towards anyone whatsoever but it's my personal opinion that although competing against others and earning your titles is great, that's not what cheerleading is about. It's about your team, the experience and the memories you make along with everything else that has nothing to do with winning or the actual competition in divisions. Any past or present athletes on here will understand that the thrill of being on the mat, regardless of the competition is an experience on it's own for anyone that cannot be compared to anything else. In my mind, that is something you can gain a whole lot more from than beating 14 teams for a trophy.

 

[cheer25mom]

115% agree with this! After watching the twinkles documentary and the division in I think there's absolutley no doubt that y5 is necessary. As for competing against no one 90% of the time, This is not to be rude or disrespectful in any way towards anyone whatsoever but it's my personal opinion that although competing against others and earning your titles is great, that's not what cheerleading is about. It's about your team, the experience and the memories you make along with everything else that has nothing to do with winning or the actual competition in divisions. Any past or present athletes on here will understand that the thrill of being on the mat, regardless of the competition is an experience on it's own for anyone that cannot be compared to anything else. In my mind, that is something you can gain a whole lot more from than beating 14 teams for a trophy.

Is it necessary if throwing those skills at that age is harming those kids down the road? More and more kids are coming up with repetitive motion injuries, and there is some indication that those are putting them at increased risk of more serious injuries down the road. The science is by no means conclusive, but it is being looked at.

 

[littlestALLSTAR]

115% agree with this! After watching the twinkles documentary and the division in general, I think there's absolutley no doubt that y5 is necessary. As for competing against no one 90% of the time, This is not to be rude or disrespectful in any way towards anyone whatsoever but it's my personal opinion that although competing against others and earning your titles is great, that's not what cheerleading is about. It's about your team, the experience and the memories you make along with everything else that has nothing to do with winning or the actual competition in divisions. Any past or present athletes on here will understand that the thrill of being on the mat, regardless of the competition is an experience on it's own for anyone that cannot be compared to anything else. In my mind, that is something you can gain a whole lot more from than beating 14 teams for a trophy.[/

Have to chime in here to say that being on a y5 is certainly a privilege not afforded to kids that don't live in a reasonable distance to a large gym that offers this level. What I hear you saying though is that I, as a parent, should be thrilled for my child (and myself) to travel across the country for the joy of competing, even if it's against no one?? We could do that right here in our home state of that was the case. It all comes down to $$ as a previous poster mentioned.
I love my daughters team and I'm obviously 100% supportive of her personal goals in the sport, but it's a lonely road when there's only three teams in the whole country to compete against. At NCA, Twinkles will be he ONLY team competing on their division.
I'd honestly have her win or lose based on talent and team effort vs just showing up.

 

[AjfromOpals]

Have to chime in here to say that being on a y5 is certainly a privilege not afforded to kids that don't live in a reasonable distance to a large gym that offers this level. What I hear you saying though is that I, as a parent, should be thrilled for my child (and myself) to travel across the country for the joy of competing, even if it's against no one?? We could do that right here in our home state of that was the case. It all comes down to $$ as a previous poster mentioned.
I love my daughters team and I'm obviously 100% supportive of her personal goals in the sport, but it's a lonely road when there's only three teams in the whole country to compete against. At NCA, Twinkles will be he ONLY team competing on their division.
I'd honestly have her win or lose based on talent and team effort vs just showing up.

That was not my intention, I'm sorry. I wasn't thinking about the whole picture as much as I probably should have and didn't think about travelling. Where I'm from most teams don't travel several times a year (for the average travelling team it's once or twice a year) and a lot of the time I forget that in some places people do. My intention of my post was around the concept rather than the practicality of it all. I'm with you in that I would always rather see a team win on talent and hard work rather than showing up and in no way did I mean the opposite. Again, I apologise and I hope I haven't offended anyone.

 

[ryanaarontroy]

This! You guys will be at NCA right? If so can't wait to compete against someone haha

Yes we will!

 

[AndyT_T]

Creatively. There are already lots of teams that size doing pyramids just fine and winning comps. That won't change.

With 5-7 on mat you wouldn't be able to do flips in level 4 that were level appropriate just as an example. If you're a team with only 5 people the most you can do is tick tocks and full ups. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in level 2 and level 1 you need to bases and a "spotter" right? So even then with 5 people you couldn't do any extended libs or extensions with 5 people.

If you have to few people to do certain things in the pyramid, will your pyramid score go down or will the judges take that into consideration? If you're a level 4 team with 7 people and you can't do any flips will that hurt your score? Or will they score you differently than other teams?

Why not just make the division 7 and up? Teams of 5 in level 1, 2, and teams of 5-8 in level 4 would be incredibly limited in what they can do simply because they would lack an appropriate amount of bracers. At least with 7 on mat you can put up a shoulder sit/stand to have a bracer, a team of 5 would lose their backspot in order to put up a brace in pyramid and (off the top of my head) most of level 1 and 2 requires a spotter right?

 

[AndyT_T]

I think this must be a typo. The current age grid has the Small, Medium, and Large divisions all with a minimum of 5 athletes. You could take a team of 15 and compete Large All girl if you wanted to.

I can't imagine they would make an XS division that isn't eligible for worlds, while simultaneously putting a minimum of 15 athletes on the Small Senior division (and only the Small Senior, not the Small Coed, that makes no sense).



They already have a policy: US All Star Federation

I think that's a pretty reasonable policy as well, and it's the same for USAG. Plus, most people I know who identify outside the gender binary understand that there are times when they will have to "put themselves in a box" so to speak, and athletics is one of those situations. I don't think many people would disagree with that policy.
That being said, I feel bad for trans youth who live in less progressive states. I don't know if it is still this way but Missouri used to require surgery to get an ID changed over, and I am sure it is still like that in some states.

It really puts trans youth at a disadvantage since they obviously don't commonly get surgery at that age.

 

[AndyT_T]

I understand that this is a slippery slope the USASF has to navigate, but this rule doesn't seem fair to me. It would make more sense to follow the same guidelines that the IOC does.

What's the difference between the two policies?

 

[dat.jpp]

With 5-7 on mat you wouldn't be able to do flips in level 4 that were level appropriate just as an example. If you're a team with only 5 people the most you can do is tick tocks and full ups. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in level 2 and level 1 you need to bases and a "spotter" right? So even then with 5 people you couldn't do any extended libs or extensions with 5 people.

If you have to few people to do certain things in the pyramid, will your pyramid score go down or will the judges take that into consideration? If you're a level 4 team with 7 people and you can't do any flips will that hurt your score? Or will they score you differently than other teams?

Why not just make the division 7 and up? Teams of 5 in level 1, 2, and teams of 5-8 in level 4 would be incredibly limited in what they can do simply because they would lack an appropriate amount of bracers. At least with 7 on mat you can put up a shoulder sit/stand to have a bracer, a team of 5 would lose their backspot in order to put up a brace in pyramid and (off the top of my head) most of level 1 and 2 requires a spotter right?

I swear I saw a level 2 team on youtube a few months ago that had a shoulder sit braced 2-man extention pyramid. Could be wrong though...

 

[lifeoftheparty]

I agree. CP was placed on a lvl 5 team at 8 and that was difficult. I cant imagine 6.

I dont agree with making youth 6-11.
Im sure there are kids who can do it, but i believe the age gap is too big.
I dont think that a six year old with level 4/5 tumbling is ready to be on say cea butterflies/ WC Twinkles. The pressure on these teams to win is big, and i honestly dont think a six year old can handle that yet (again, there may be exceptions to the rule).
Then there is the difference in interests,most 11 year olds dont do stuff with little ones, they are big girls and will act that way. Im in education and see it during recess, the lil ones are cute for a bit and when the big girls get bored, they dissapear from site leaving the lil ones to play by themselves.
Now this ofcourse wont happen like a carbon copy in a gym, but the bigger girls can get upset/tired of the lil ones playing around/not getting things the first time,
Losing focus etcetc In other words: being a little kid!
Then there are Those Moms aka suzies mom:
How are gyms/coaches supposed to protect little suzie from over achiever mommy dearest who wants her lil baby to have a layout by age 6 so she can be on a level 5 team. And who will put huge amounts of pressure on said lil girl by putting her in loads of privates,classes and making her practice at home as well.
Im for letting 6-8 year olds being awesome on a mini teamand letting her show off the higher tumbling/building skills in solo's or groupstunt competitions.
Let them truely enjoygetting to perform in front of a crowd, and doing the stunts
There will be more than enough time to get to level 5

 

[coachrah]

You keep asking if they will address it. They did address the back walkover under 5, you even acknowledged it. And, a year or two ago they addressed some level of youth no longer being able to do one mans. You keep mentioning capping levels which IMO is tossing the baby out with the bath water because, kids are getting skills at younger ages and AS has gained popularity. If it comes out that it is detrimental for 10 year olds and under to repetitively do jumps to tuck or standing fulls, they could remove those skills from those age groups, instead of having to remove it from the entire level. I don't know for a fact that's where they are heading but, it makes sense now that there is a huge focus on children sport injuries, that pediatricians, ortho's, and PT's are going to voice concerns on appropriate and inappropriate skills/drills by age development in all sports. Our neighborhood blog has people constantly asking for good surgeons and PT's for their kids ACL/MCL tears, knees, and elbows and it's rarely because of cheer.

The research for back bends was already done by an established governing body... Gymnastics.