All Star Rec

[Cheer4lyfe]

Ok, I am glad this was put on here. Let me tell you about my program.
We are not for profit. We practice out of a rec hall with blue foam mats. We hold tryouts because we dont have enough uniforms or space to accomidate the demand. We have volunteer staff, we make our own music and we rent our uniforms. We are $300 for a 8 month season, which includes EVERYTHING. Including competition fees.
We compete ALL STAR.

Now, here is why. We compete all star because our level is so high we dont feel right competing rec. Additionally, the way we look at it is that we dont cheer for a team of any kind, we are competition focused, therefore we should be competing all star. As the person who started this thread said, this is not always the case.

Now, would we kill the competition if we competed rec? Absolutely. Do we compete strongly against other all stars? We have to work a little harder but we hold our own.

My personal feelings about it are very cut and dry. If you cheer for a team of any kind, that requires you to be at games REGULARLY throughout a season then you are rec. If you cheer soley for competitive purposes you are all star. REGARDLESS of your equipment, cost, etc. We practice on foam mats and we hang with gyms who have unlimited resources.

Bottom line, is if you compete soley for competition, no matter who sponsors you, where you practice or anything else, you are a all star cheerleader.

 

[Callmeboots]

Our motto is: "all star quality; rec price"

I LOVE this. I feel like that's how we're looking at our program too, however we don't have to all-star kids flooding into our program.

Bottom line, is if you compete soley for competition, no matter who sponsors you, where you practice or anything else, you are a all star cheerleader.

Most of the girls we have this year have only cheered rec, never cheered at all or cheered Freshman high school last year. We're definitely not at the tumbling talent level to be going up against All-star gyms. We rent our facility from an All-star gym, so practice time is very limited. We're doing the best we can to bring the girls up to where we would like them to be, and so far we're doing great, but out of 22 girls we only have 3 with back handsprings. We have 2 tumbling coaches that come during our practices but we don't have the gym time to have extra tumbling classes. That is the main reason we still consider ourselves Rec, plus the non-profit aspect. Maybe eventually we will morph into an all-star gym, but as of right now, we don't have the numbers or skill level to compete all-star.

If that is the case, then why do half year true all-star teams compete Rec most of the time?

Around here, no matter if you're a sideline cheerleader or a strictly competitive one, they take competition pretty seriously, so it's definitely a fair fight.

 

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

I have seen it all over the place. My CP's half-year team competed against regular allstar teams at regular, non-rec competitions. Back home it is very common for girls to do rec cheer, but they do sideline in the fall and then compete all winter. Those teams do compete in the rec division. I have seen a gym here in NC from down on the coast compete as Rec. All season.

I do believe that USASF should at least take a stance on who can compete as what. It is sort of laughable that there is no regulation about it. Especially when at smaller, local competitions there are combinations of all of the types competing at the same event. Personally, I think that rec teams should be teams that are formed for purpose of both competing AND sideline. I think that you should have to take the floor with the same roster you started your sideline season with (give or take...), and you shouldn't be able to start practicing a routine before September. I also think that it should be capped to 2.1 for youth and below- stunts to level 2, tumbling to level 1., and junior/senior to maybe 3.2. The caveat to this for the rec teams should be that if you hold separate tryouts for your winter comp team or you remove any kids, they need to go allstar prep. Children's recreation leagues are supposed to be all-inclusive to the children in the area they serve.

I think Allstar Prep should be any team that is put together with the sole purpose of competing, and can't start before September. This can include true allstar half-year teams. They are prep teams as well, and often have first year kids on them, which could almost work to the advantage of competitive rec programs in that the rec program will often retain kids for a few years if they don't move to allstars, and most half-year team kids at an allstar gym will move up the next year to full year teams. There should be no full-year allstar crossovers allowed for either rec or prep. I think an across-the-board cap at level 3 is reasonable. They are "prep" for a reason.

Why do I think that it should be regulated? To protect everyone involved. It isn't fair to the rec teams when allstar & half-year teams drop down into their division. I don't want to see the prep program ruined by unscrupulous gym owners who decide to sandbag their half-year teams with full year kids. And I want allstar gyms to be treated fairly, and stop being lumped in with rec programs that call themselves allstar when it comes to statistics, insurance, etc. I am in favor of capping the skills that can be taught, or thrown by teams because quite frankly a lot of the teams in those divisions don't have the resources to be teaching them safely. I would rather see rec teams with beastly level 1 & 2 stunts in the air than looking all shaky because they are trying to keep up with the allstar teams that drop down to rec.

 

[SarahS]

I LOVE this. I feel like that's how we're looking at our program too, however we don't have to all-star kids flooding into our program.



Most of the girls we have this year have only cheered rec, never cheered at all or cheered Freshman high school last year. We're definitely not at the tumbling talent level to be going up against All-star gyms. We rent our facility from an All-star gym, so practice time is very limited. We're doing the best we can to bring the girls up to where we would like them to be, and so far we're doing great, but out of 22 girls we only have 3 with back handsprings. We have 2 tumbling coaches that come during our practices but we don't have the gym time to have extra tumbling classes. That is the main reason we still consider ourselves Rec, plus the non-profit aspect. Maybe eventually we will morph into an all-star gym, but as of right now, we don't have the numbers or skill level to compete all-star.

If that is the case, then why do half year true all-star teams compete Rec most of the time?

Around here, no matter if you're a sideline cheerleader or a strictly competitive one, they take competition pretty seriously, so it's definitely a fair fight.

There are lots of all star teams that are non-profit. If you only have 3 BHS out of 22 kids, compete at level 1 in the all star division. There is no way, in my opinion, that a team that practices at an all star gym, has tumbling instructors, and never cheers for another sport should be considered rec. Period. I don't care if real rec teams give you a "fair fight", I think that competing as rec as you do goes against the idea of rec.

Let me be clear that I don't think you're breaking any rules (unless you're competing at those EP events that require that your teams cheer at another sport, but I'm guessing that you don't attend those events.) I don't think you're cheating at all. I just think that there should be clear definitions of what is rec, and I don't think that programs like yours should fall into those divisions. I wish you the best of luck this season!

 

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

If that is the case, then why do half year true all-star teams compete Rec most of the time?

Around here, no matter if you're a sideline cheerleader or a strictly competitive one, they take competition pretty seriously, so it's definitely a fair fight.

This is simple. You have to remember that half-year teams are just that- half-year. They start in September, and are usually comprised of kids with little to no cheer experience. The coaches can only work with the kids that they have. There are no tryouts, it's just signups. We don't have them practice 2-3 times per week, they usually practice once per week for a couple hours and have a tumbling class once per week. Tumbling once per week for four months before they start competing is not going to give them an advantage. There is a progression of tumbling skills that they have to go through- the most they may end up with before they compete is a roundoff.

There are a lot of politics involved on the allstar side. In our area, as SharkDad can testify to, crossovers are heavily used throughout most gyms, so you potentially will have kids who have been practicing for four months, with little to no tumbling, competing against kids on mini 1 who are also on youth 3. Our youth 1 half-year team did go rec last season. I will admit it. When we had signups for half-year teams they only had a handful of youth kids sign up, and a bunch of mini kids. Do you turn away the youth kids? They ended up combining the youth & mini kids and made a youth 1. And honestly, they competed against teams twice- they lost one competition, to a real rec or allstar-prep type team, and they beat one at nationals and won since there were only two teams in their division. At this point in Allstar cheer, EVERY division is a snake pit. If your team isn't on point and able to max at least a couple areas on the score sheet, you might as well not show up. That is why allstar gyms put their half-year teams in rec divisions. And that is why I proposed what I posted above, about a three-tier system, with restrictions on who can enter what division. It answers the problems with how to handle half-year allstar teams, while still giving rec programs an outlet to compete on a level playing fields.

 

[Callmeboots]

There are lots of all star teams that are non-profit. If you only have 3 BHS out of 22 kids, compete at level 1 in the all star division. There is no way, in my opinion, that a team that practices at an all star gym, has tumbling instructors, and never cheers for another sport should be considered rec. Period. I don't care if real rec teams give you a "fair fight", I think that competing as rec as you do goes against the idea of rec.

Let me be clear that I don't think you're breaking any rules (unless you're competing at those EP events that require that your teams cheer at another sport, but I'm guessing that you don't attend those events.) I don't think you're cheating at all. I just think that there should be clear definitions of what is rec, and I don't think that programs like yours should fall into those divisions. I wish you the best of luck this season!

Then tell me why American Youth Cheer allows "competitive only" teams? They are a Rec league and we are registered under them, but they allow teams to register that don't cheer for games or aren't linked to a football team. Rec cheer is obviously all over the board, but we are NOT an all star team. While we try to hold the same standards as all star does, we couldn't compete. We take everyone and separate our teams by age, not skill level. I think that's also a big difference between all star and rec. I support your opinion, but I just disagree.

Maybe in Virginia things are different, but in California there are a lot of competitive only rec teams and we all compete against each other, and there are teams that cheer for games too, I used to coach one of them, but I never felt that the teams that didn't have to cheer were cheating and I never felt like they should be going all star. There's obviously a reason why they're competing rec, whether it be financial, the amount of people they have or the fact that they just aren't ready to be all star. I personally would not feel comfortable registering children and taking their parents money to compete as an all star team. It's not fair to the team. I have a lot of girls that have cheered rec for years and are pretty advanced with stunting, they just do not have the tumbling skills. Competing level 1 would be a waste of their time and money. I'm trying to grow my program, not kill it before it's even started.

We still have to follow AYC rules when we go to any competitions, because we are registered under them. I like the All star prep division and maybe at some competitions we will compete that if we feel that we fit that better than the rec division or if there is a guideline that says we have to cheer for another sports team. I'm not one to sandbag divisions because I've been on the other end of it, it's not fun, but I define my program as competitive rec. It's something that very much exists, and hopefully will stay that way.

 

[Callmeboots]

This is simple. You have to remember that half-year teams are just that- half-year. They start in September, and are usually comprised of kids with little to no cheer experience. The coaches can only work with the kids that they have. There are no tryouts, it's just signups. We don't have them practice 2-3 times per week, they usually practice once per week for a couple hours and have a tumbling class once per week. Tumbling once per week for four months before they start competing is not going to give them an advantage. There is a progression of tumbling skills that they have to go through- the most they may end up with before they compete is a roundoff.

And that's where we're at. We only start practices August 1st like regular rec teams. We take everyone, and we have plenty of girls that have never cheered before. Right now the team we have is girls aged 12-15. All of them have either only cheered rec, never cheered before or only cheered one year of JV in high school. We had to teach them motions, jumps, and basic stunting. Most of them do not tumble. We practice twice a week with no tumbling classes. Our first competition is in November, and we end in March. It's not a year round thing like all star teams are. I don't disagree with putting the half year kids in competitive rec divisions. If that's where they fit and can compete fairly, then that's okay with me, but I can see why people might disagree with it.

 

[Tosh]

My organization would be considered Elite/Premiere Leagues as SharkDad put it. We have a lot of kids who are involved in all-star cheerleading in our program. I coach the Senior team where I have cheered all-star, rec, high school, and college so I am well aware of the different levels, aspects, and rules. We did however attempt to create a "governing body" for rec but unfortuanetely not all teams in our area were on board. The problem my team in particular runs into often is because many of them are level 5 all star cheerleaders we are more "advanced" than most "rec" teams would be. We find ourselves sometimes "dumbing" down our routines to comepete locally and now even at the national level. I understand where some of the more "traditional" rec teams are concerned that their kids want a fair oppertunity to comepete, but I also believe that those of us rec programs that are more advanced and have the talent and oppertunity should not be held back. I am not against all star programs who drop down to rec level but I am against those who do not consider rec to be a part of the cheerleading world. Our motto is: "all star quality; rec price" the USASF should adapt a rec governing body so we can have the same oppertunitues as all stars do. It would be amazing if all types of rec programs could be recognized and we all could compete at the level we actually are. My team is throwing "fulls" and sometimes go up against a team that have only forward rolls, which is unfair to both teams. My team in particular doesn't cheer for another team but our younger teams do, but even at the younger levels we do not concentrate on "sidelines" we concentrate more on the competitive aspect. So until rec is actually recongized by a higher power we all have to suffer

My question is does your team cheer for a football rec program? If they do, then there should be no issues. If they do not, then I think they should be considered AS and not Rec.....JMO

 

[Cheer4lyfe]

There are lots of all star teams that are non-profit. If you only have 3 BHS out of 22 kids, compete at level 1 in the all star division. There is no way, in my opinion, that a team that practices at an all star gym, has tumbling instructors, and never cheers for another sport should be considered rec. Period. I don't care if real rec teams give you a "fair fight", I think that competing as rec as you do goes against the idea of rec.

Let me be clear that I don't think you're breaking any rules (unless you're competing at those EP events that require that your teams cheer at another sport, but I'm guessing that you don't attend those events.) I don't think you're cheating at all. I just think that there should be clear definitions of what is rec, and I don't think that programs like yours should fall into those divisions. I wish you the best of luck this season!

Shimmy times 100!

 

[eliteathletics]

UCA is trying to squash true allstar teams from dropping down to compete rec by changing the time limits to 2 minutes- so teams cant decide mid season that they will drop down to win- however JAM does not abide by the time change- so t is very likely that a rec team will compete against allstars. Like I said earlier Jam requires you to be able to PROVE you cheer for a sports team if questioned- I guess pictures would prove that, and I plan on taking pics on my phone incase Im questioned.
My teams are rec- however due to being thrown out of our local organization for being to good (their words not mine) we are a true rec team. We run under the PAL guidelines, we are volunteers, non for profit and have to follow what our board of the youth league tells us to do.
We need new unifomrs this season because our old ones -are old and the skirts are very short, they are also 240.00 each and need updating. So we chose allstar looking uniforms - I guess that could work against us in the future.
Regardless of what people think we will keep moving forward, trying to grow our program as we see fit- as long as we follow the rules of the EP's events we decide to attend that season. If we get beat then we will work HARDER in the future to not get beat the next time.
My kids are very dedicated, extremely competative but have no real desire to be true allstars, I guess I make it to easy to want to stay by attending nationals and big competitions for them on a much smaller price scale. plus because this is a town organization - all of their friends are on the team, unlike allstars who come from various surrounding towns.

 

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

And that's where we're at. We only start practices August 1st like regular rec teams. We take everyone, and we have plenty of girls that have never cheered before. Right now the team we have is girls aged 12-15. All of them have either only cheered rec, never cheered before or only cheered one year of JV in high school. We had to teach them motions, jumps, and basic stunting. Most of them do not tumble. We practice twice a week with no tumbling classes. Our first competition is in November, and we end in March. It's not a year round thing like all star teams are. I don't disagree with putting the half year kids in competitive rec divisions. If that's where they fit and can compete fairly, then that's okay with me, but I can see why people might disagree with it.

And I completely agree with you. I just really think that there needs to be a happy medium between the two. Both rec and allstar are evolving to meet consumer demands, with rec trending more competitive, and allstar gyms how having the half-year offering. There is a grey area that is forming between the two where the lines are somewhat blurred. USASF should police this whole concept for sanctioned events though. Regardless if the teams are allstar or not, the teams that are on the floor are competing under the EP's liability insurance, which it is my understanding is becoming more difficult to come by. With some teams there could be some major tit-for-tat about where they belong. Our gym had a half-year youth 1 team that did compete rec. It's where they fit. It was a team with a couple youth-age girls and a bunch of minis. The team that beat them in the rec division (a rec team) at their first competition where they actually competed against someone would have no issue with them being rec because they beat them. The team they beat at nationals probably did have an issue with it. I am all for clear delineations of what qualifies as what. I suppose that from spending some time in the allstar world I have learn that when things aren't clear, they are taken advantage of. And I would really hate to see the "Rec" or "Allstar Prep" division taken advantage of. Once you see these divisions pop up at bigger name competitions that mean something in the Allstar world (no offense) you will start to see the abuse. New parents are usually most swayed by titles, and it would be very easy for people to say "We brought home 6 National Champ titles at XYZ Nationals last season" and four were in the Rec division. As the rules are right now, an athlete cannot cross-compete Allstar to Rec in any competition. It doesn't say they can't cross-compete throughout the season.

 

[Oaklyn Cats Senior Pink]

My question is does your team cheer for a football rec program? If they do, then there should be no issues. If they do not, then I think they should be considered AS and not Rec.....JMO

Yes all of our teams in the organization cheer sideline except for our Senior team this year simply because of scheduling conflicts. We used to be associated with our towns football program but about 5 or 6 years ago we broke off and now we cheer for soccer.

 

[eliteathletics]

And I completely agree with you. I just really think that there needs to be a happy medium between the two. Both rec and allstar are evolving to meet consumer demands, with rec trending more competitive, and allstar gyms how having the half-year offering. There is a grey area that is forming between the two where the lines are somewhat blurred. USASF should police this whole concept for sanctioned events though. Regardless if the teams are allstar or not, the teams that are on the floor are competing under the EP's liability insurance, which it is my understanding is becoming more difficult to come by. With some teams there could be some major tit-for-tat about where they belong. Our gym had a half-year youth 1 team that did compete rec. It's where they fit. It was a team with a couple youth-age girls and a bunch of minis. The team that beat them in the rec division (a rec team) at their first competition where they actually competed against someone would have no issue with them being rec because they beat them. The team they beat at nationals probably did have an issue with it. I am all for clear delineations of what qualifies as what. I suppose that from spending some time in the allstar world I have learn that when things aren't clear, they are taken advantage of. And I would really hate to see the "Rec" or "Allstar Prep" division taken advantage of. Once you see these divisions pop up at bigger name competitions that mean something in the Allstar world (no offense) you will start to see the abuse. New parents are usually most swayed by titles, and it would be very easy for people to say "We brought home 6 National Champ titles at XYZ Nationals last season" and four were in the Rec division. As the rules are right now, an athlete cannot cross-compete Allstar to Rec in any competition. It doesn't say they can't cross-compete throughout the season.

Heres where my problem lies in your comment- you say your 1/2 yr team should cheer rec bc it has minis on it- this implies that your gym took their mini team added them to a few rec kids and made a winning team out of them- im sorry if I offend but that is cheating. Minis are allstars and regardless if they are now cheering up or not they are still allstars your gym padded its rec team with seasoned kids. If its ok at the mini level then why not at the jr or sr level.
That is the problem with rec allstars and allstar prep- your team should have been allstar prep. The true rec allstars cheer for a town team, are goverened by the local pop warner, pal etc and dont have allstars on the team.

 

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

Heres where my problem lies in your comment- you say your 1/2 yr team should cheer rec bc it has minis on it- this implies that your gym took their mini team added them to a few rec kids and made a winning team out of them- im sorry if I offend but that is cheating. Minis are allstars and regardless if they are now cheering up or not they are still allstars your gym padded its rec team with seasoned kids. If its ok at the mini level then why not at the jr or sr level.
That is the problem with rec allstars and allstar prep- your team should have been allstar prep. The true rec allstars cheer for a town team, are goverened by the local pop warner, pal etc and dont have allstars on the team.

False. That is not what I said. We had a few youth age kids sign up for half-year, and a bunch of mini age kids sign up for half-year. Our gym fielded a regular allstar tiny team with 12 athletes last season, as well as a 21 kid large mini team- well away from the 32 kid max. We had room for kids, these ones just wanted to do half year. We couldn't form a youth half-year team with 5 kids, so they combined them with the mini half-year team, thus creating a youth half-year. Every one of the kids on that team with the exception of one, who cheered half-year the year before with my CP, was brand new.

 

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

They didn't go rec because they had minis on it, they went rec because that is where it was determined they belonged last season. Note that they only won once, against one other team. They started practicing with the same team they finished with. The rosters were simply combined in August, after signups but before practice started, to avoid turning away kids. The tiny team (half year as well), did not go rec because they did not belong there. That team didn't win once all season, and that was fine, but they didn't come in last at everything either.