All-star Routines Becoming Too Compulsory?

Discussion in 'Allstar Cheerleading' started by DaniV, Apr 22, 2013.

  1. King

    King Is all about that bass Staff Member

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    There is. Don't have judges that have to do both, subjectivity and objectivity. Difficulty judges handle the objective part. Execution and performance judges do the subjectivity. The fact that people think a human can multitask well enough to do both AS ACCURATE as when you separate them out blows my mind.

     
  2. coach12

    coach12 Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    Good points brought up here. There are just so many elements needed in a routine that its getting harder to have some great choreography included. I do miss that.


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  3. BlueCat

    BlueCat Roses are red, cats are blue National Champion

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    We need a "mega shimmy" button that you can only use once a week. I would have used it on this one.

    I would also like to point out that all star cheer has DRAMATICALLY more fans now than it did 8-10 years ago. Somebody must like something about today's routines.
     
  4. King

    King Is all about that bass Staff Member

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    Haha, that is actually something I am working on called 'Glitter'. I think it will work well.

    And I have always thought creativity comes from a box. Set constraints and people will find more creative ways to explore those constraints. I look at this years routines and I am NOT bored. And they are hard and people are struggling to hit them, but that is a good thing. It means people have to weigh risk more vs reward and make winning that much harder. I do think cheer has a lot more to mature as a sport, but I don't look at where we are now and think it is boring.

    And recently getting into the college game where it is more like cheer 5 years ago let me say... you DON'T want to go back.
     
  5. yojaehs

    yojaehs Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    This has been brought up many times at many meeting and gets shot down every time, here is why.

    If you extend time limit to say 2:40 for choreography that's all fine and good until SOME gym uses that extra 10 seconds for skills. In order not to lose now every gym has just added 10 more seconds of skill.

    Also EP's whine about it being a scheduling issue which I reply for each kid spending $75+ figure it out.

    My personal opinion is routines should times based on level-
    Levels 1&2 2:10
    Levels 3&4 2:20
    Level 5 Res 2:30
    Worlds 5&6 2:40




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  6. RockstarCheer

    RockstarCheer When all else fails.... I shimmy

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    SHIMMY TIMES 1000! Amen and I couldn't agree more!
     
  7. Gabrielle Schilling

    Gabrielle Schilling I'm new. Don't Hurt Me

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    As someone who was inlvoled with high school cheer for years before being turned on to all stars, I was used to super tight, super clean routines even if they didn't have a lot of skills. They were still great to watch because I used the skills my kids had and was creative with the routine. It didn't matter that they couldn't do a certain tumbling pass or a specific stunt because they had fun and so did the crowd.

    Back to the present, I am stressing over rubrics and what my team "has to have" to max out. As I watch their current routine, I feel that I am trying to shove so much into a rountine that it easily turns sloppy. I don't even think my girls like doing it anymore.

    The other coach and I are trying to figure out how to add another creative dismount or load for a stunt but there is no time to put it in. So were can't max out.

    Also, as I watch a competion the other day I realized that a lot of these routines look the same. Since the teams in our division were all the same level, we needed all of the same things. I knew what was going to happen in each routine. It had to happen. If the team wanted to max out on the scoresheets.
     
  8. 5-6-7-8

    5-6-7-8 I have my own cheer message board

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    I was hoping you bring this up. The idea of. Having difficulty and execution judges being separate seems to address many current issues, this one included.

    I truly believe that your idea of having difficulty scored by judges using video review will in a way help bring back creativity. If a judge can focus on the counting / analyzing with the assistance of a pause button and rewind, it definitely frees up the "subjective" judge(s), allowing them to sit back and enjoy the routine.


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  9. cupieqt

    cupieqt Person everyone wants to meet this season National Champion

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    I think we need that mega shimmy button King
     
  10. King

    King Is all about that bass Staff Member

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    I 100% agree it will bring back creativity.

    First, cheerleading is a sport. It is athletic, takes skill, and there are winners and losers (and unfortunately ties... sigh...).

    Second, cheerleading is a business (and that is NOT a bad thing). Because the business model of cheerleading is actually QUITE lucrative, it has allowed cheerleading to grow. If you are good at cheer you can make a living and therefor stay in cheerleading.

    I do think certain changes to what we do will actually help the sport AND business side of things. If all our routines were about creativity there would be mega rich choreographers and poor skills developers. If our routines were all about skills then the gyms would be rich and choreographers would be poor. If music is sued by the RIAA and we have to compete to Randy Dickey's counting then the music mixers will go away. But because cheer is a rich deep sport that involves many facets all of those can grow and be healthy and all celebrated. I think by separating skills judging from execution / creativity judging we create a deeper chess game where different gyms can focus on different things and be successful.

    As well this will also increase safety. First off the more money in cheer for the gyms means the more skilled professionals they can hire. On the scoresheet if execution is judged stronger and falls and incompletes are harsher this will also increase safety. Cheerleading will never be 100% safe, but there is a level of acceptable risk we can get to and all sports have.
     
  11. King

    King Is all about that bass Staff Member

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    That is the thing coaches have yet to grasp: the routines require more than you can fit in 2:30. And that is the point. If you can't fit in everything now you have to pick and choose exactly what to put in AND execute correctly. I think if teams start getting crushed for execution this will help a lot.
     
  12. SparkleSpankies

    SparkleSpankies I think I can mix Cheer Music

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    I think that is the problem, maxing out is really tough, however to be in the high range w/ great execution is the smart way.
     
  13. gymcatmomx2

    gymcatmomx2 When all else fails.... I shimmy

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  14. gymcatmomx2

    gymcatmomx2 When all else fails.... I shimmy

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    This is so different for me. I prefer to watch my 2 CPs perform skills then watch them dance. After all, the skills is what I am ultimately paying for.
     
  15. yojaehs

    yojaehs Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    I would also like to add that I think the current scoring system is a product of many many mistakes in judging. When things are left up to subjective opinion mistakes happen. Yes, the current Worlds score sheet is subjective but I feel that because of other systems throughout the season Worlds is very similar to expectations throughout the season.