All-Star Cheer Athletics (questions/rumors)

[TealShades]

I know that you've said on here that ca doesn't use outside choreographers often. But what about the other way around. What is your policy on your staff/coaches choreographing teams from other gyms? Does the gym/team go through CA first? Do they pay CA or the coach directly?

 

[BlueCat]

I know that you've said on here that ca doesn't use outside choreographers often. But what about the other way around. What is your policy on your staff/coaches choreographing teams from other gyms? Does the gym/team go through CA first? Do they pay CA or the coach directly?

For various reasons, cheer is unlike the vast majority of industries in that employees sometimes to do contract work for businesses competing against their full-time employer. I can't imagine a Coca-Cola executive being allowed to go help Pepsi develop new products on the weekend. That is, however, considered normal in all star cheer.

We allow our coaches to do choreography, but there are a few limitations. They may do all of the school (JH, HS, College) teams they wish. If they are doing choreo for an all star team - that team must not compete directly against any CA team AND they must not be within a specific geographic distance of one of our facilities. If there is a special situation that may violate one of those rules, we consider those case-by-case. All of this assumes that it doesn't interfere their coaching responsibilities.

This leaves well over 90% of the market available to them and we feel that is a fair compromise.

People will call us to get referrals for choreographers. If the coaches get the job through CA, we get a small referral fee. If they get the job on their own, all that money goes directly to them. Either way, the coach is paid directly by the people who hired them, as that is basically free-lance work and we do not assume the liability.

 

[Cheer Dad]

@BlueCat not CA related, but since you have been in this industry for so long I'm assuming you've either seen or experienced it all and helped other programs as well.


As parents looking at potential gyms what warning signs can we look for to see if the gym is either not run well or possibly in financial distress?

Things that's come to mind for me would be more obvious once you are apart of a program.

Things like last minute gym wide email demands for payment or kids are pulled from practice or comps. Constantly threatening kids spots, always advertising for specific spots once teams are already set, expecting kids to make 'emergency' practices with no notice..... those are obvious but what are the less obvious we could look for?


**I see crazy people**

 

[BlueCat]

@BlueCat not CA related, but since you have been in this industry for so long I'm assuming you've either seen or experienced it all and helped other programs as well.


As parents looking at potential gyms what warning signs can we look for to see if the gym is either not run well or possibly in financial distress?

Things that's come to mind for me would be more obvious once you are apart of a program.

Things like last minute gym wide email demands for payment or kids are pulled from practice or comps. Constantly threatening kids spots, always advertising for specific spots once teams are already set, expecting kids to make 'emergency' practices with no notice..... those are obvious but what are the less obvious we could look for?


**I see crazy people**

I don't know that those specific things on their own are signs for a gym's demise.

Accounts receivable is literally a full-time job for us and you have to send email after email after call after call to get responses sometimes. Sometimes you have to sit kids out of practices or competition and that sucks for everyone involved. It doesn't take very many delinquent parents to really throw things into the red for a gym.

Sometimes injuries or other circumstances can lead to needing a particular type of athlete and you send out a request for that.

"Emergency" practices can also happen with injuries or roster changes. We try to send out notice when possible, but on rare occasions, you simply need to get everyone there right away.

The best thing to do it to talk to athletes/parents who are or have been recently with a program. Try to talk to multiple different people on different teams to get an overall feel. (Occasionally you get a random parent who will be really mad about something - if you find multiple ones, that is often a bad sign.)

 

[sophfemme]

I know you probably don't want to discuss this but is Panthers staying large? I'm glad they got their full paid bid this weekend but are they planning on adding one more stunt group in for the future?

 

[BlueCat]

I know you probably don't want to discuss this but is Panthers staying large? I'm glad they got their full paid bid this weekend but are they planning on adding one more stunt group in for the future?

I don't know about adding more athletes, but they are large as is. They will continue to be large.

 

[NJ Coach]

I know you probably don't want to discuss this but is Panthers staying large? I'm glad they got their full paid bid this weekend but are they planning on adding one more stunt group in for the future?

They'd have to get another bid if they want to add to their numbers. CA plays the ratio game as well as any gym I can think of, so I doubt they'll add just to add.

 

[Cheer Dad]

I don't know that those specific things on their own are signs for a gym's demise.

Accounts receivable is literally a full-time job for us and you have to send email after email after call after call to get responses sometimes. Sometimes you have to sit kids out of practices or competition and that sucks for everyone involved. It doesn't take very many delinquent parents to really throw things into the red for a gym.

Sometimes injuries or other circumstances can lead to needing a particular type of athlete and you send out a request for that.

"Emergency" practices can also happen with injuries or roster changes. We try to send out notice when possible, but on rare occasions, you simply need to get everyone there right away.

The best thing to do it to talk to athletes/parents who are or have been recently with a program. Try to talk to multiple different people on different teams to get an overall feel. (Occasionally you get a random parent who will be really mad about something - if you find multiple ones, that is often a bad sign.)

On accounts I'm thinking of the ones where the gyms lets the families get months and months behind where the balance could be around 1,000 or more.

Emergency practices is a bad description. Last minute or very short notice because the coach is angry or possibly panicking for lack of prep where no changes are made for injuries, sickness etc...

As for disgruntled parents I agree multiple may be an issue but 1 or 2 could just be people that are always unhappy. We all know someone like that.


**I see crazy people**

 

[BlueCat]

On accounts I'm thinking of the ones where the gyms lets the families get months and months behind where the balance could be around 1,000 or more.

I can understand why people not in the gym business would think it would be nearly impossible for anyone to run up large balances. The reality is that when you have hundreds (or thousands) of athletes, some of their parents aren't going to pay on time. Multi-month balances are even more rare, but not impossible. You will hear an unbelievable range of excuses. Parents will make special arrangements for payments and then break them routinely. They will then get furious when you threaten to withhold services from their child. Dealing with the accounts receivable is easily one of the worst parts of the job of running a youth activity business.

It is never fun to pull a kid from a team for any reason. It never really gets any easier. There are times it has to be done, but it always feels icky. It really stinks when you are forced to basically punish a kid for what their parents did (or didn't do).

As a percentage, our A/R is probably lower than it has been in 20 years. However, it is still a painfully large number despite us throwing a ton of resources at the issue.

 

[Nothanks]

I can understand why people not in the gym business would think it would be nearly impossible for anyone to run up large balances. The reality is that when you have hundreds (or thousands) of athletes, some of their parents aren't going to pay on time. Multi-month balances are even more rare, but not impossible. You will hear an unbelievable range of excuses. Parents will make special arrangements for payments and then break them routinely. They will then get furious when you threaten to withhold services from their child. Dealing with the accounts receivable is easily one of the worst parts of the job of running a youth activity business.

It is never fun to pull a kid from a team for any reason. It never really gets any easier. There are times it has to be done, but it always feels icky. It really stinks when you are forced to basically punish a kid for what their parents did (or didn't do).

As a percentage, our A/R is probably lower than it has been in 20 years. However, it is still a painfully large number despite us throwing a ton of resources at the issue.

I have no idea if this is one of the things that you use as a "resource" for that, or if this is totally different from what you're referring to...but do you offer a lot of individual fundraisers? I see the same fundraisers across gyms all the time, and just wondered if that's a regional thing, or if it's something on a much larger scale, that you see success with. What are some of the more popular, monetary-ily beneficial ones?

I see sandwiches and subs at least three times a week across different gyms/teams in my area.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

I can understand why people not in the gym business would think it would be nearly impossible for anyone to run up large balances. The reality is that when you have hundreds (or thousands) of athletes, some of their parents aren't going to pay on time. Multi-month balances are even more rare, but not impossible. You will hear an unbelievable range of excuses. Parents will make special arrangements for payments and then break them routinely. They will then get furious when you threaten to withhold services from their child. Dealing with the accounts receivable is easily one of the worst parts of the job of running a youth activity business.

It is never fun to pull a kid from a team for any reason. It never really gets any easier. There are times it has to be done, but it always feels icky. It really stinks when you are forced to basically punish a kid for what their parents did (or didn't do).

As a percentage, our A/R is probably lower than it has been in 20 years. However, it is still a painfully large number despite us throwing a ton of resources at the issue.

On the school cheer end of things, I have had to do this as well (it falls on me to be the "you need to pay up by ___ or your kid is not cheering this season" big bad witch.)

I do not come to that point often but when I do, it really is not fun (especially when they've been given every opportunity to make the necessary payments/make plans/etc.)

 

[BlueCat]

I have no idea if this is one of the things that you use as a "resource" for that, or if this is totally different from what you're referring to...but do you offer a lot of individual fundraisers? I see the same fundraisers across gyms all the time, and just wondered if that's a regional thing, or if it's something on a much larger scale, that you see success with. What are some of the more popular, monetary-ily beneficial ones?

I see sandwiches and subs at least three times a week across different gyms/teams in my area.

There are numerous reasons we don't get directly involved in most fundraisers. Many individuals do stuff on their own, but we generally don't do them through the gym.

We get more solicitations to participate in fundraisers than you can imagine.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

There are numerous reasons we don't get directly involved in most fundraisers. Many individuals do stuff on their own, but we generally don't do them through the gym.

We get more solicitations to participate in fundraisers than you can imagine.

I knew I wasn't crazy for doing this!

As a HS coach, I do not directly coordinate any fundraisers for my cheerleaders either as of 2 seasons ago.

All fundraising is handled individually. You are welcome to sell, wash cars, etc. on your own. Often, the parents will put something together but it is not something I get involved in.

I will periodically get an offer for a lucrative opportunity like working concessions at some pro sporting event, but other than that, no.

You should see the parent's faces when I tell them we do not require any fundraising nor are there any team fundraiser events. Some do not like it, but coordinating fundraising on top of working full-time, coaching, a family, etc. was entirely too much for me. If you are in need of the funds for cheer, I can give you some ideas, but I have stopped coordinating them for folks or requiring it.

For those who would rather just write the check than push wrapping paper, candles, cookies, etc. on unsuspecting FB friends, it is music to their ears.

 

[BlueCat]

Not to sound insensitive, but athletes/parents can sell all the candy/candles/popcorn/trinkets they want and keep the profit. (Same with working concession stands, etc.). I see no real benefit to setting up CA as a middleman. We try to minimize the selling to our own customers when possible, although we can't monitor every second of the viewing area.

Also, having a non-profit setup to handle fundraising brings its own negatives. Increased liability/overhead and a lack of flexibility for distributing funds in a "fair" way in relation to who did the work are the big ones.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

Not to sound insensitive, but athletes/parents can sell all the candy/candles/popcorn/trinkets they want and keep the profit. (Same with working concession stands, etc.). I see no real benefit to setting up CA as a middleman. We try to minimize the selling to our own customers when possible, although we can't monitor every second of the viewing area.

Also, having a non-profit setup to handle fundraising brings its own negatives. Increased liability/overhead and a lack of flexibility for distributing funds in a "fair" way in relation to who did the work are the big ones.

That was my biggest issue. Six girls come to the car wash. 5 of them are there the entire time washing cars while Suzie shows up halfway through, washes two cars, and leaves early. However, she still expects to be included evenly in the split. That is why we do not even deal with it. Let all 6 of those moms get headaches over the split. Not me.