Competition Between Teams Within A Gym

Discussion in 'Allstar Cheerleading' started by Fleximom, Mar 11, 2019.

  1. Fleximom

    Fleximom Cheer Stalker

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    In our gym, we have several teams that are in the same level ( S2 and J2, S4 and J4 for example). It seems the athletes (and the parents) are getting very competitive with each other, though the teams don't compete directly at all. Much talk of "J2 outscored S2" etc. I feel like with summit bids being given by level, that is part of the reason. But it is really ruining the feeling of family within the gym. I don't know the solution, but it makes me really sad to see teams in our gym basically rooting against each other.

     
  2. oncecoolcoachnowmom

    oncecoolcoachnowmom Bestest Newbie '14

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    Can you even really compare scoring between divisions (even if same level?)

    You can't even compare your own scores between comps.


    Also welcome to bid chase culture.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
  3. BlueCat

    BlueCat Roses are red, cats are blue National Champion

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    .... one of the many things I hate about the (relatively) new Summit bid dynamic. FWIW, it happened before when bids were given by age group - it was just different teams.
     
  4. quitthedrama

    quitthedrama I buy my Insta followers

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    I've not had to deal with anything Summit in our years of cheer, and I'm very glad of that. It seems to have created more problems and has had an overall negative effect on cheer as a whole. Teams within the same gym competing against each other for bids is one of those problems. I don't envy coaches and gym owners for trying to balance that dynamic. I can't blame Varsity - they simply created an event parents were begging for, but I don't think parents were looking at the big picture.
     
  5. DonnaM

    DonnaM I nugget in the back

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    I don’t know how to balance it, but it definitely feels unbalanced in that some levels have almost no teams, and some have dozens. We had more level 3 D2 teams without bids going into UCA than D2 teams total in 4.2, 5r and 5-and almost all of them are hoping to upgrade to paid, because they have bids. I can kind of see why it could lead to friction when there is only one bid being given out and more than one team at the same gym who gets it (and we are likely to have a j3 and S3 in that situation in April)
     
  6. oncecoolcoachnowmom

    oncecoolcoachnowmom Bestest Newbie '14

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    Random question:

    How do 4.2 and 5R bids work?

    Do 4.2s compete for same pool of bids as all Level 4? Or do comps set aside one for 4.2?

    And is 5R competing for same pool of bids as say, J5/JC5?
     
  7. BlueCat

    BlueCat Roses are red, cats are blue National Champion

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    They generally are all in the same "catch-all" pool for bids. I can understand why 5 and 5R are in the same, but 4.2 seems like an odd addition to that group.
     
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  8. Lisa Seye

    Lisa Seye I'm an announcer on CBS for Worlds (or should be)

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    4.2, 5 and 5r are grouped together because the quantity of those teams combined are similar to all level 4s, all level 3s etc. At least it was last season. I've seen amazing growth in r5s this year.....
     
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  9. Knowcheering

    Knowcheering Last Pass... on International Open 1

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    The sport was better and healthier before the Summit. There's been a noticeable decline in the past 5 years or so.

    And yes, the family atmosphere is naturally going to diminish when teams are pitted against each other for the same bids. As soon as kids sign up for competitive cheer these days, it's already cutthroat in Level 1 and they're running around chasing bids. A Jr 3 team doesn't look up to the Sr 3 team as much as they used to because now they're in direct competition for a bid. Team may "rank themselves" within their own gym based on who gets a Summit bid first. Level 1 teams are getting bids before good Level 5s. The whole bid process is awful and probably wouldn't exist if there weren't so many separate event producers trying to make money.

    You can't compare scores across different divisions. You can barely compare your own score from Day 1 to Day 2. Scoring is mostly relative, and it's obvious that scores tend to magically rise on Day 2 for nearly all teams (assuming you don't perform dramatically worse on Day 2). The scores don't mean that much. Teams within the same division are being separated by tiny decimal points, now imagine comparing those tiny decimal points to a bunch of separate divisions/levels with different judging panels. It's impossible and nonsensical, especially with all the division splits there are these days.

    So then you have a Sr 2 team hating on the Jr 2 team in their own gym for getting a bid instead of them (or before them), and you have the Jr 2 team thinking they're superior to the Sr 2 team, when really maybe all it was was that their division was scored easier/differently or had lesser competition.

    I'm glad I cheered before the Summit existed.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2019
  10. Lower Level Queen

    Lower Level Queen Cheer Stalker

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    This is definitely a problem at the gym I cheer at. Our S3 and S4 are the only teams that go to summit. Our S3 got their bid really early in the season, and our S4 got it end of february. That entire in between period there was a lot of animosity and tension between the two teams before S4 got their bid. It wasn’t even created by the parents or coaches, it was entirely the athletes themselves (particularly the ones on S4). It really sucked because the two teams practice together one night a week and those never went well.
    Both teams upgraded to a paid bid last night though so hopefully things will get a little better.
     
  11. oncecoolcoachnowmom

    oncecoolcoachnowmom Bestest Newbie '14

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    Prediction: Varsity will eventually introduce Tiny/Mini Summit so you can chase bids before you even know how to read.
     
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  12. catlady

    catlady Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    World teams don't seem to have the same issue, so I'm going to default to maturity and some of the over the top hooplah that goes on when these kids get a Summit bid. First, reveal parties and video posts of kids squealing for joy on social media. Then the congratulatory and "so excited" tweets. Next parents throwing a party to celebrate and pics in Mickey ears. Summit bound posters/balloons. Mickey cupcakes, cookies and cakepops. Themed practices, Summit bound shirt, Summit wear, tweets, tweets and more tweets... My kids began AS as Freshman and they just didn't care what other teams had or didn't have, but I can see how younger kids would get jealous and have a harder time with all of the attention, goodies and non-stop celebrating.

    I don't see the same level of celebration coming from World's teams. It's usually cookie cake, back to business, World's wear and off they go.
     
  13. SharkDad

    SharkDad Most Positive, Best Parent '12 Staff Member National Champion

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    I think it’s more accurate to say “so many separate event producers that all work for the same company or are trying to make it happy”
     
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  14. OldskoolKYcheercoach

    OldskoolKYcheercoach I think I can mix Cheer Music

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    Kids in worlds teams have often had some degree of success prior to earning that worlds bid. There are still “role players” on worlds teams, but because of the scoring, there are much fewer of them except on those teams that have chased a bid for seventeen competitions trying to find ANYONE who might consider them worthy.

    Summit you’ve got a bunch of kids who’ve never had any success suddenly getting the big “prize.” So the parents lose their minds “my daughter and her back walkover are going to DISNEY!!!!!”
     
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  15. cheermomforever

    cheermomforever Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    Also some events have too many Worlds bids than teams .....don’t think that will ever happen for Summit bids.