OT Competitive Cheerleading Vs Competitive Dancing

[Pebbles49]

For the last 4 years, my daughter had been competitively cheering, but this season, she decided to take a break and solely dance.

When she was cheering, she had weekly tumbling privates and was constantly pushing and wanting those level 5 tumbling skills. Well, even though she is not cheering, I still have her taking 1x week tumbling lessons at her old gymnastics gym with her regular tumbling coach. However, she made a competitive dance team and she seems to be doing really well on this team (mainly in Jazz, Tap and Hip-Hop). Matter of fact, She have been selected to do a solo routine in Hip-Hop and a duet in a Jazz routine and she made the elite dance squad that is made up of 6 dancers.

In general, I was approached by her dance instructor and was asked that she stop taking tumbling privates. Her dance instructor says that in dancing, level 5 tumbling skills is not needed and at most, she said that layouts are the maximum skills needed. Additionally, her dance instructor also mentioned that dance judges are unimpressed by dancers who tumbles...

In general, I want to know, people who are familiar with competitive dancing arena, is this true and why, if it is true that tumbling is not used in dancing?

 

[SL&AM]

What's she is telling you is pretty accurate. When CP was in between she was offered a spot at the all-star dance studio her sister is at; when I mentioned she was working on getting her BHS back I was told it didn't matter because they couldn't use it in a routine. Tucks and Aerials are the most common upper level tumbling I see at our studio.

As for the judges, that is pretty subjective but in my experience also accurate. While tricks are good to have, judges grow tired of them especially in the older divisions. Tumbling is harsh in comparison to the musicality that dancing is supposed to show off. That aside, if she plans on going back to cheer I wouldn't quit the weekly class, but everything she's told you is true.

 

[Pebbles49]

@SL&AM, thanks for the reply...I am very new to competitive dancing and I am pretty shock that all the skills she gained from gymnastics and cheer will really not be use. The dance instructor even told her the minimal number of tricks(2) to used and this primarily only in her Hip-Hop routine Bhs layout with a step out, I think, and in her Jazz routine, she is doing front and side aerials only. Wow, I am put off by the amount of time and money spent on her tumbling and she may lose it...

Her dance instructor wants me to sign my daughter up for more ballet(3 hrs/week) lesson, which she says will help her with the dance technique.

Right now, my daughter wants to just dance, she dances 4 days a week- 12.5 hours and she works at the studio on Saturday for 3hrs as a dance instructor assistant for exchange for 2.5 hrs of free dance lessons. So right now, she is eating and sleeping dance.

I was wondering, if her dance instructor frown on the tumbling lessons because tumbling builds up big & bulky muscles instead of the lean muscles you normally see on dancer?

 

[SL&AM]

@SL&AM, thanks for the reply...I am very new to competitive dancing and I am pretty shock that all the skills she gained from gymnastics and cheer will really not be use. The dance instructor even told her the minimal number of tricks(2) to used and this primarily only in her Hip-Hop routine Bhs layout with a step out, I think and in her Jazz routine, she is doing front and side aerials only. Wow, I am put off by the amount of time and money spent on her tumbling and she may lose it...

Her dance instructor wants me to sign my daughter up for more ballet(3 hrs/week) lesson, which she says will help her with the dance technique.

Right now, my daughter wants to just dance, she dances 4 days a week- 10 hours and she works at the studio on Saturday for 3hrs as a dance instructor assistant for exchange for 2.5 hrs of free dance lessons. So right now, she is eating and sleeping dance.

I was wondering, if her dance instructor frown on the tumbling lessons because tumbling builds up big & bulky muscles instead of the lean muscles you normally see on dancer?

I've never seen a situation where a dance instructor told someone not to do something because of what it would do to their bodies, but it could be possible. It does happen in higher level ballet schools and companies, but they're very strict on weight and height typically---you don't typically see that in a comp studio.

Does the studio off any Acro classes? My guess is that it's a financial thing---if she doesn't gain the skills she wants, will she ever leave dance to return to cheer? If she spends a day a week elsewhere, would you then take that day and spend it at her studio and pay additional money? My guess, having not been there with you, is that it's more of a financial thing than anything else. The only other big push I could see is if she's worried your CP will get hurt and then have to sit out from dance---thus putting her team in a bind, but if she didn't bring up the safety concern it likely isn't that which then goes back to the financial.

Tumbling, cheer and gymnastics all focus on her core strength which is imperative in all aspects of dance, but outside of that strength and control---is mostly useless. If your studio did a pom or a kick team, for example, you'd see far more of her cheer motions and the sharp crisp technique as a huge asset. Outside of that, I can't think of where they cross much outside of jumps because they would help her with leaps.

 

[Pebbles49]

Apart of me think that this dance instructor could be concerned about the safety and possibly my daughter's commitment level towards the dance studio too. She starts performing tomorrow and competitions, conventions and workshops in January, so I am eager for her to dance and actually watch this dance world firsthand...

@SL&AM, you mentioned one of your children dances, can you describe what that experience like for you, is it like Dance Moms? and what the judging like? And lastly, do you actually get to see the judge's scoresheets? I know, my daughter's dance instructor mentioned most of the judge's comments are put on tape and given to the dance instructors...Are you able to get those tapes?

 

[SL&AM]

Apart of me think that this dance instructor could be concerned about the safety and possibly my daughter's commitment level towards the dance studio too. She starts performing tomorrow and competitions, conventions and workshops in January, so I am eager for her to dance and actually watch this dance world firsthand...

@SL&AM, you mentioned one of your children dances, can you describe what that experience like for you, is it like Dance Moms? and what the judging like? And lastly, do you actually get to see the judge's scoresheets? I know, my daughter's dance instructor mentioned most of the judge's comments are put on tape and given to the dance instructors...Are you able to get those tapes?

Our studio is nothing like Dance Mom's. I wouldn't let her dance there if it were, but our experience is a little skewed since she's on a SN team. It is the same studio I was at several years ago (my old head coach now owns it, the original owner is in the USASF food chain somewhere---just don't ask me where) and my cousin has both of her girl's there, this is there 3rd or 4th year I think (one is a mini/youth age and the other is a senior), so I can help with the questions based on her experience---at our studio, parents do not have access to the scoresheets or the tapes, but the kids do. The coaches go over it with them after each competition along with listening to the tapes. The studio CP was at in Missouri before switching to cheer did the same thing with their competitive team so I think it's pretty standard practice; when I danced at this studio and for my HS team it was the same system as well.

The atmosphere at the studio is very family oriented---probably more family oriented than any cheer program we've ever been apart of; communication flows easily and you don't even really ask questions because they're very thorough in the beginning. Our comp season starts in December for one team but officially all of the teams start moving in January and it's nearly every weekend through to April. My cousin's eldest did a lot of dance growing up so when she switched to a comp team, she knew what she was doing---her younger struggled a lot. She was really scared that the parents would groan about having her because she wasn't as skilled, but she was pleasantly surprised to find that no one cared or judged.

Now, is there studio drama? I'm sure somewhere down the line there are those parents (There definitely were a few head cases when I was the dancer back when)---but so far, I haven't met any, but they may not show that side until comp season truly begins. We're lucky to have access to such a great studio; their reputation is strong in the dance world and they continually place well and sweep a lot of comps they go to.

 

[Pebbles49]

My daughter have experienced a few slights because she earned a spot on an elite squad and she has only been with this studio for 1 year. I remembered her coming home and telling me about some girls who tryout for a spot on this small squad(6) and not getting on...She said many of these girls were moaning and groaning about dancing with the studio for 5+ years and she been with the studio for less than a year and made this team. Now the studio director picked my daughter to teach and help out with the the minis and tinys (3-6 y.o)... So right now, there is some tension, but the parents seemingly are not the ones creating the drama... But I told my daughter to be humble and these issues will resolve themselves in the end.

 

[SL&AM]

My daughter have experienced a few slights because she earned a spot on an elite squad and she has only been with this studio for 1 year. I remembered her coming home and telling me about some girls who tryout for a spot on this small squad(6) and not getting on...She said many of these girls were moaning and groaning about dancing with the studio for 5+ years and she been with the studio for less than a year and made this team. Now the studio director picked my daughter to teach and help out with the the minis and tinys (3-6 y.o)... So right now, there is some tension, but the parents seemingly are not the ones creating the drama... But I told my daughter to be humble and these issues will resolve themselves in the end.

That sounds like an uncomfortable situation, but you're right that it'll likely resolve itself with time.

Our studio doesn't have anything like that so no one has that dynamic to mess with.

 

[CheerBank]

My daughter have experienced a few slights because she earned a spot on an elite squad and she has only been with this studio for 1 year. I remembered her coming home and telling me about some girls who tryout for a spot on this small squad(6) and not getting on...She said many of these girls were moaning and groaning about dancing with the studio for 5+ years and she been with the studio for less than a year and made this team. Now the studio director picked my daughter to teach and help out with the the minis and tinys (3-6 y.o)... So right now, there is some tension, but the parents seemingly are not the ones creating the drama... But I told my daughter to be humble and these issues will resolve themselves in the end.

I don't think that is uncommon as you think. Even in some big name gyms, it is easier to make the elite team coming in as an outsider (if you have the skills) as opposed to having been there from the beginning and working your way up the ranks. The owner may want some fresh blood (and $) coming in from the outside, especially since the ones grumbling will typically not leave to go somewhere else.

They also may be grumbling more because not only is your daughter new to the studio but to competitive dance in general. Kudos to your daughter for getting a spot on a more advanced team and good luck to her for the season.

 

[purplecheer]

For the last 4 years, my daughter had been competitively cheering, but this season, she decided to take a break and solely dance.

When she was cheering, she had weekly tumbling privates and was constantly pushing and wanting those level 5 tumbling skills. Well, even though she is not cheering, I still have her taking 1x week tumbling lessons at her old gymnastics gym with her regular tumbling coach. However, she made a competitive dance team and she seems to be doing really well on this team (mainly in Jazz, Tap and Hip-Hop). Matter of fact, She have been selected to do a solo routine in Hip-Hop and a duet in a Jazz routine and she made the elite dance squad that is made up of 6 dancers.

In general, I was approached by her dance instructor and was asked that she stop taking tumbling privates. Her dance instructor says that in dancing, level 5 tumbling skills is not needed and at most, she said that layouts are the maximum skills needed. Additionally, her dance instructor also mentioned that dance judges are unimpressed by dancers who tumbles...

In general, I want to know, people who are familiar with competitive dancing arena, is this true and why, if it is true that tumbling is not used in dancing?

Why should it matter to the dance teacher if your child wants to improve their tumbling? Especially if your daughter knows and doesn't care that it won't be used, she might want to improve just for the sake of self-improvement. Every child should be allowed to do what they want, providing it doesn't clash with the dance teachers class times.

 

[dawgshow]

Why should it matter to the dance teacher if your child wants to improve their tumbling? Especially if your daughter knows and doesn't care that it won't be used, she might want to improve just for the sake of self-improvement. Every child should be allowed to do what they want, providing it doesn't clash with the dance teachers class times.

Potential injury and less time to take more advanced dance classes are two reasons that the dance teacher may care.

 

[Pebbles49]

@SL&AM, @dawgshow and @CheerBank, Thank you for the compliments...You know, I think before joining the dance squad, which she was selected to tryout, they seemed to have been excited about her tumbling skills and even asked her to demonstrate those bhs, tucks and layouts in the Jazz class. So that is why I was quite confuse that she is now on the squad and the dance teacher is saying no more tumbling lessons...you have enough, okay! I am just trying to understand this dynamics between the two sports.

However, The tension that is going on between the insiders and outsiders is probably there because the Dance Instructors and Directors are not being honest with the longtime dancers in their company... When I finally got a chance to look at the make-up of this elite squad, all these girls, including my daughter look a like, similar to the Rockettes or Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders-- The 6 girls are tall, but between (5'6-5'8), long legs and limbs and thin, so I think this company have an idea image of what they want on their squad and age make-up between 12 to 14... So a lot of these girls who are moaning and groaning do not fit this small window... I wonder if these girl's parents even see it... These girls made the performing squad, but just not the squad that does the extensive traveling and that can tryout for solos, duet and trios in dance routines, just company, which they can be cut from even those dances too...

In retrospect, I am starting to like the competitive cheerleading world over competitive dancing...At least, in cheerleading, they make every attempt to include instead of exclude based on looks!

PS: My daughter even told me about a girl, who made the company squad that she thought was good... She said this girl picks up choreography quickly and was a great performer, but she is short and plump, so I am pretty sure this did not help her...

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

^^^^^^^

@dawgshow

Yes!

For example, the basketball coach at the HS where I work isn't a fan of kids playing outside club/AAU basketball during the season.

His idea is that kids get hurt and they are not fresh and well-rested for school games or practices.

Same concept with dance.

 

[astaley22]

@SL&AM, @dawgshow and @CheerBank, Thank you for the compliments...You know, I think before joining the dance squad, which she was selected to tryout, they seemed to have been excited about her tumbling skills and even asked her to demonstrate those bhs, tucks and layouts in the Jazz class. So that is why I was quite confuse that she is now on the squad and the dance teacher is saying no more tumbling lessons...you have enough, okay! I am just trying to understand this dynamics between the two sports.

However, The tension that is going on between the insiders and outsiders is probably there because the Dance Instructors and Directors are not being honest with the longtime dancers in their company... When I finally got a chance to look at the make-up of this elite squad, all these girls, including my daughter look a like, similar to the Rockettes or Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders-- The 6 girls are tall, but between (5'6-5'8), long legs and limbs and thin, so I think this company have an idea image of what they want on their squad and age make-up between 12 to 14... So a lot of these girls who are moaning and groaning do not fit this small window... I wonder if these girl's parents even see it... These girls made the performing squad, but just not the squad that does the extensive traveling and that can tryout for solos, duet and trios in dance routines, just company, which they can be cut from even those dances too...

In retrospect, I am starting to like the competitive cheerleading world over competitive dancing...At least, in cheerleading, they make every attempt to include instead of exclude based on looks!

PS: My daughter even told me about a girl, who made the company squad that she thought was good... She said this girl picks up choreography quickly and was a great performer, but she is short and plump, so I am pretty sure this did not help her...

Most studios aren't like that. I did competitive dance when I was younger and had a wonderful studio. Very inclusive and transparent.

 

[purplecheer]

Most studios aren't like that. I did competitive dance when I was younger and had a wonderful studio. Very inclusive and transparent.

I dance with a studio that is all about having fun and learning, and it is great!

Potential injury and less time to take more advanced dance classes are two reasons that the dance teacher may care.

The dance teacher may care, but she can't tell a student what they can and can't do. Or can she?