All-Star Discuss The Rules: Level 4/5 Standing Tumbling

[tumbleyoda]

can we all say it.......
CONDITIONING........
where is it???? Why is not there????? Gymnasts have it, football has hit, why don't we??

The simple positive politically correct answer? Time management.

 

[NJ Coach]

My interpetation would be Level 4 you can now do standing hand to layout. If they lower it 1 level it would then be you can only do hand tuck.

So that would mean Level 4 would be hand to tuck and level 5 would be hand full - where is the progression of learning the next skill needed (layout) in order to progress to a full. You need to perfect your layout (flatboard - not piked) in order to properly learn to twist that layout to a full. Did I explain that right?

Correct. Now, if something like this were to pass in the future, 3 levels would have to be included to fix progression. Level 4 would be to a tuck, Restricted 5 would be to a layout and Level 5 would be to a full. That's the only way to have proper progression.

Of course there's still a huge jump from Level 3 to 4 which would also be fixed by the above. The way it stands right now, athletes are going from standing series bhs to standing to layouts, but that's a conversation for another day

 

[CAmamakat]

NO to 38!!! L5 is L5 for a reason!......again, it you don't like the heat, get out of the fire!!! I think its unfair to limit my athlete and I hope that this doesn't pass!

 

[NoOneSpecial]

The simple positive politically correct answer? Time management.

funny how some programs manage to fit it in....

 

[NoOneSpecial]

Okay not sure what happen to my edit - and now I don't have an edit button to edit my response.

supose to read:

Funny how some programs manage to fit it in..... It is a matter of what is important....

 

[tumbleyoda]

Okay not sure what happen to my edit - and now I don't have an edit button to edit my response.

supose to read:

Funny how some programs manage to fit it in..... It is a matter of what is important....

That is time management as well.

 

[yourfavoritebackspot]

I think the rule chage would be good for youth and maybe jr 5 teams as their bodies are still growing and if your a youth 5 really how much time did you have for propper progression?? Im level 4 with a single full and Iwouldnt want my standing tumbling changed or running. I need these skills to progress!!

 

[notimeforthat]

Okay not sure what happen to my edit - and now I don't have an edit button to edit my response.

supose to read:

Funny how some programs manage to fit it in..... It is a matter of what is important....

You would think that a strong conditioned body would rank in the matter of importance... I don't know to many kids that will take it upon themselves to do a strength training program outside of the gym.

 

[Level5Mom]

You would think that a strong conditioned body would rank in the matter of importance... I don't know to many kids that will take it upon themselves to do a strength training program outside of the gym.

Mine does, and she has standing tumbling to doubles. Coincidence?

 

[CAmom]

Agree with you LVL5 mom!!! I was the one "yelling at the computer" while this was being debated yesterday!

And here's the thing, my daughter has not even mastered this skill...yet. But she WANTS it and is willing to WORK for it!!! As soon as she mastered a running double, she told her coach, "now I want a standing to double." For the kids who are willing to WORK for it, I would hate to see it taken away. An athlete doesn't want to work for it? Fine. But let the ones who do, progress.

As far as safety goes, I completely agree with Ms.Love. There are many coaches in our gym with different coaching styles for tumbling. I picked the one who "over-spotted" for her to train with. He doesnt let her get away with bad form, and is capable of catching a double out of the air if it is going wrong. He also wont let her "chunk" it as soon as she is close. As Ms. Love said, with proper coaching there is no reason to limit standing to doubles!

 

[tumbleyoda]

You would think that a strong conditioned body would rank in the matter of importance... I don't know to many kids that will take it upon themselves to do a strength training program outside of the gym.

I was trying hard not to dig into this since I have posted on this in years past.

- most trained tumbling coaches want the kids to condition. We know how it all fits together. We know it takes time, muscle memory, muscle development, spatial awareness, flexability and much more. But when you take cheerleaders who have no experience in teaching tumbling (because they are cheaper to hire/retain) and make them your primary tumbling instructors whose primary instruction is throw it again with zero emphais on correction, body position, angles, force, etc.
- when conditioning is used as a negative re-inforcer - you didnt' throw a skill/pass so now we condition is not the best way to get an athletes or parents buy in to the necessity of conditioning.
-Suzie shows up and wants to all of a sudden learn a new skill show can make the next level team when she has done absolutley nothing to strengthen her body over the season and her mom/dad gets upset that Suzie's friend got the skill and she doesnt. They dont want to hear Suzie is not strong enough so they change classes, coaches or gyms.
-many coaches dont see conditioning as a means of injury prevention. I do.

I posted this years ago but when I made mention at one place that the kids need to condition more I was told they dont pay to condition they pay to learn skills and cheer. In no way do i think this represents the majority view point. What I do believe it points to however is bad time management. If you structure your time correctly it can be done. if you dont or do not value it, it will not.

I am in 100 percent agreement with Elaine and Debbie on this issue. There is a major disconnect between most cheer coaches and tumble coaches. We need to work together to accomplish the common goals of the gym. One of those goals must be better conditioned athletes.

 

[NoOneSpecial]

That is time management as well.

If its important to coach/program then it would be manageable. Take away from working that extra tic or extra quarter turn. Actually in the end, if you are properly conditioned it might save you time on working that extra tic or extra quarter turn because you are stronger... It all becomes a wash.

 

[NJ Coach]

I think it starts at the beginning too. Start proper progression, training and conditioning at the Tiny/Mini or Level 1. Get them from the beginning. Makes everything so much easier.

 

[p.o.k.]

As I had mentioned in the other thread on this subject, this rule change does not make any sense. If this is to fix a progression from levels 3 to 4 than maybe the fix should start at level 3 (or earlier as some you have posted). Dropping a level does not make any sense especially when you have a Sr Open 5 division - where doubles are not allowed. So would Sr Open 5 become the new level 4 - with some fulls? Level 4 the new 3 with some layouts - and so on.....

I agree with the conditioning and generally in my opinion athletes that have doubles in most cases do condition outside the gym and take extra lessons. They are driven to achieve elite status and it takes a lot of work to get there.

Based on the responses above I am singing to the choir. What is the alternative opinion on this subject and why do some feel the tumbling skills need to be lowered? No one has really posted the reasoning behind this proposal in a cohesive statement - at least so everyone can understand it (especially if you were unable to listen to the live discussion).

I guess a less elite Suzie will be able to get to Worlds a lot quicker if this rule change will pass.

 

[cheer8]

vote no!!!!!!