Division I And Division Ii At Worlds - Big Gym Separation

Discussion in 'Allstar Cheerleading' started by King, Jun 30, 2013.

  1. King

    King Is all about that bass Staff Member

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  2. cupieqt

    cupieqt Person everyone wants to meet this season National Champion

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    Well I think it's brilliant. And I like that small gyms have the option to compete in either division.


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  3. gofriars610

    gofriars610 Moderator Staff Member National Champion

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    Makes too much sense to actually happen. But I hope it does. I like how they're keeping large senior and large coed just as d1 divisions.


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  4. kristenthegreat

    kristenthegreat Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    Part of me likes it and part of me hates it. The part that likes it hopes that gyms will be more realistic about team capability and therefore scary stunts/tumbling will reduce. The part that hates it thinks "if these teams aren't going for D1 or 'just want the experience' why are we messing with worlds? Why not give them a separate Summit division and make worlds require a certain score?" That a team in 49th at 2013 worlds could be a 'world champion D2 in 2014' seems ridiculous.

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  5. callmecoach

    callmecoach Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    This is my concern as well. I like the idea of DI and DII but think it should be based solely on gym size; there shouldn't be a choice involved. This would keep both divisions competitive rather than having small gyms with great teams still go for DI and small gyms with not-so-great teams enter DII just for the chance to win.
     
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  6. Eyes On The Prize

    Eyes On The Prize Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    Agreed. I'm all for making our sport better and advancing it but I feel if you can't hang with the best if the best, then you don't belong. Worlds is turning into just another nationals competition... How about we limit the amount of bids given out? That will solve both problems. There won't be divisions with 87 teams in it and only teams whole really belong there will be there. Not Podunk extreme stars that has one full and can do a fake tic toc.
     
  7. Jessicalynn

    Jessicalynn Best Flyer.. on a parent team

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    I think it would be different if this was done at a different competition but worlds is supposed to be the best of the best so if just because your a small gym you shouldn't get like an easy pass to worlds . I think they should be kept together


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  8. cheernerd5678

    cheernerd5678 Slow your roll, Sparkle. Bracket Winner

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    I think it's a good idea in theory, but I feel like it'll turn into people considering one division better than another and then being like "Oh they 'won' but it was division II so it's not the same"
    If the smaller gyms that are (already) competitive choose division I then division II will be an "easy win" for those competitive gyms who stay and/or less prestigious if teams are winning who didn't even have a chance in the past.
     
  9. Audrey

    Audrey I have my own cheer message board

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    I can't decide if I like this idea or not. On one hand, I quite like that it presents the possibility of one earning a worlds ring without leaving their home gym for a mega gym. It could make retaining athletes a much easier task for small gyms. On the other hand, it doesn't make sense to have a "lesser" world title to me. A world champion should truly be the best in the world. Not the best of those that didn't elect to try for best in the world, if that makes sense.
     
  10. MissCongeniality

    MissCongeniality Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    I'm with @kristenthegreat. If you split it up then I feel like it diminishes the title and the competition. The Jamaican bobsled team didn't ask for a special division at the Olympics.
    I do get that it's getting tougher for the small guys to compete with e mega gyms...but does that mean that cheerleading can't be as fun for them (because they stand a tough battle to get a team to go to worlds and do well? Is that really what cheer is all about?) I was a swimmer growing up and I knew that I would probably not get one of those top spots and go to the Olympics, but I still got the opportunities to compete against the best of the best including World Record holders at other competitions.
     
  11. Cheerspectator101

    Cheerspectator101 Most Awkward Bracket Winner

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    I like this idea because it give small/medium gyms with a premier level 5 team the opportunity to still compete with the large gyms that usually dominate. I do agree with cheernerd5678 though with people saying that one would be better than another, how about if instead of just a choice, they make a cutoff score from each worlds division and place them in division 1, and others in division 2?
     
  12. callmecoach

    callmecoach Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    I think this only reinforces one division being better than the other. If they do it strictly by gym size, similar to how high school nationals separates by school enrollment, you get competitive teams in both divisions. The problem with this is that there are small gyms who I'm sure would prefer to be in DI with the big dogs. But to me that would just be something that has to come along with this change and that gyms will have to deal with. Separating by score and/or giving gyms the choice of division lessens the caliber of DII any way you spin it.
     
  13. Cheerspectator101

    Cheerspectator101 Most Awkward Bracket Winner

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    Very true. I think that a small gym with continued success in division 2 may grow to a become a large gym or there may be a system in place where certain small gyms can "apply" to be in division 1.




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  14. USASF Rules

    USASF Rules I make my own voiceovers

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    Hello Everyone,
    If you clicked the link in the very first post of this thread, you will see that this is an idea that I have brought to the Board. I enjoy reading your opinions about this but I want to give you an update on where this currently is. I also want you to know that NO final decisions on this topic have been made and when final decisions are made; I give you my word that I will come here to the FierceBoards and let you know as soon as possible. By the way, if you here any "official" information about this topic from someone else, it's probably not accurate.
    UPDATE: I have been given the green light from the Board to take this conversation to the Regional Meetings. I am looking to create a Div II at Worlds. Yes, I have my opinions about how it should be done but I will be listening to the coaches opinions at the Regional Meetings this Summer. The main idea is to give smaller gyms (the official number of athletes has not been set) an avenue to compete at Worlds. This is the same thing that happens in just about all sports. If you think about college football (it's just an example so don't go off on a college football rant), they have Div 1A, Div II, etc... and all of their divisions have championships. There are plenty of details to work out so stay tuned.

    LES' RANT:
    I watch over an over again as this industry fights itself over every issue. I hope this is something that this entire industry can get behind and support. I truly believe that this has the possibility to grow All Star cheerleading across the country. Instead of thinking this shouldn't happen; help me determine the best manner for it to happen so it becomes something positive for all of us. While I love all of the top, elite, large gyms as much as anyone else. Those are the gyms I would rather not hear from. (Sorry top gyms, I don't mean that as an insult.) OK - I have plenty more to say but this post is getting pretty long so I will wrap it up. I hope to see you this Summer.
    Les Stella
     
  15. p.o.k.

    p.o.k. When all else fails.... I shimmy

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    It is the same problem they have at Cheersport. A team in one division may be third and but twelfth in another. What would stop a gym from having, for example two small senior teams in both divisions?