Division I And Division Ii At Worlds - Big Gym Separation

Discussion in 'Allstar Cheerleading' started by King, Jun 30, 2013.

  1. as1rico

    as1rico I shimmy daily

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    How about recognition of small gym champion with in the divisions......say 130 kids is the #.... the highest ranking team with 130 or less athletes (and I like the only 1 team at worlds)gets some sort of globe (different from the top 3 teams) and maybe if they are not in the top 10 a automatic place in the finals.
    Disclaimer:this would have been great for our gym last year we had 85 full year members last year and came in 14th in Medium All Girl, not 100% sure but I think we were by far one the smallest gyms in the division.

     
  2. JulieP

    JulieP I have my own cheer message board

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    I whole-heartedly agree. Coming from a small gym that's trying to build our L3 and L4 athletes into L5 athletes down the road, I like the idea that there's a venue for them to be successful and stay in our gym. I have felt for a while now like there have been some changes proposed (i.e. the age grid from a few months ago) that signaled the death of small gyms in our industry. I think this is the first step in the right direction.
     
  3. retiredl5cheer

    retiredl5cheer Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    Providence?!
     
  4. gofriars610

    gofriars610 Moderator Staff Member National Champion

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    Yep!


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  5. BlueCat

    BlueCat Roses are red, cats are blue National Champion

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    As every single example of multi-tiered championships (college football, college basketball, soccer, Special Olympics, etc.) being used is held in different locations and/or different times/dates, I am assuming this is part of the proposal. If so, that could possibly alleviate most of the biggest problems with the current Worlds venue.
     
  6. Daniellerae

    Daniellerae Best Flyer.. on a parent team

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    The argument of kids leaving small gyms to go to a big gym just to be in D2 may be true for some athletes, but there's also going to be the kids who leave a D1 team that got 10th at worlds to be on D2 team that won. It would (hopefully) balance itself out.


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  7. The Sixth

    The Sixth When all else fails.... I shimmy

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    This guy gets it!

    First off, all the comparisons to college football are terrible. All Star in no way resembles that model.

    The All Star model is already divided up a million ways. AG vs Coed, Large vs Small (and now Medium), and even further by Levels 1-6. It seems (intentionally or not) the industry already has a built in method for allowing small gyms to build themselves up to compete. Can't field a level 5 team? You have level 4. Can't field a full level 5 team? You now have restricted 5. Can't field a large level 5 team? You have small and medium. Yes, they do have large and small gym classifications at some Nationals. And it's generally very awkward.

    The key word that sticks in my mind from the "Les Rant" was "grow". Hmmm...the cynical side of me asks what is their definition of grow? More kids participating, or actual advancement? I could offer up two activities to a group of kids, and say the one who does best in one is a winner; and for the other offer free popsicles and say everybody is a winner. Should be a no brainer which one will be more popular. It's been discussed to death how the USASF needs to move towards legitimizing the sport (scoresheets, rules, etc.). I don't see how this does adding a division (read champion) helps. We all see how the multiple National titles waters down the legitimacy of the sport. Seems this would do the same thing.
     
  8. MaineStar234

    MaineStar234 There are Cheeropedia articles about me!

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    If d1/d2 were to take place on different weekends or different venues, probably no one except parents would attend the d2 competition... Two trips near in time frame would be a lot for people to pay for, and most spectators would choose the d1 event. So maybe it would help the over-crowding problem, but it would leave the d2 athletes with a sense of being less than the d1 teams (as their event wouldn't have the same crazy vibe that Worlds currently does, it would feel like just another competition), still prompting people to switch gyms. So maybe we should try to keep Worlds as one cohesive event but just if using d1 and d2 system, give out less bids in d1 to compensate for the bids going to d2, and keep the event the same? I'm just kind of thinking out loud here, not sure if anyone else will feel the same.


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  9. AndrewSky

    AndrewSky Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    I'm not understanding why everyone thinkings giving D1 less bids would help. It is going to be the "premier" teams mainly, so why would you want to limit the amount of premier and elite teams at worlds for more restricted five routines?
    If you're already creating a different division I think that would be enough to level the playing field.
     
  10. alexacheer2010

    alexacheer2010 Best Flyer.. on a parent team

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    Why can't there just be a set HIGH score you need to get to get your worlds bid? one of the gyms that went this year got their bid because 5 other gyms turned it down. That is ridiculous. You are either worlds caliber or you aren't. If I play professional baseball and my team isn't good enough for the World Series, my team doesn't just get to go play in the World Series because we want the "experience." I can go watch it, but not be a part of it. Worlds should only be the best of the best. I already think there are way too many gyms going with their "level 5" teams. I watched some of these teams. Faking stunts, mostly level 4 tumbling... these teams shouldn't be at Worlds. It seems to me if there is a d1 d2 split however it is done, everyone will know "oh you won the d2 worlds, that's not the real worlds."


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  11. JulieP

    JulieP I have my own cheer message board

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    If you get rid of all the at large bids, then is Worlds actually a financially viable event for the USASF? The at-large teams are the ones that are actually paying to be there and paying the bulk of the bills, or at least that's the impression that I had.
     
  12. kristenthegreat

    kristenthegreat Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    Should it be that way though? I get for whatever reason it has to be for now, but then there's no reason for worlds to get more elite, and plenty of reason for it to be less. It might be an idealized thing, as there are no sponsors for worlds. That's another topic.

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  13. JulieP

    JulieP I have my own cheer message board

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    I totally see what you're saying, and I understand the argument that people make regarding too many at-large bids. Believe me, I sat in the milkhouse all day for small senior and small coed prelims to watch the handful of teams that I cared about. I even watched a few teams that I am confident my L4 could have beaten. After all, we have a few fulls too. Anyways, I digress. I just wonder if all the people who want less at-large bids think about the ways in which that might increase the cost for the bid-winning teams in the future. If there are less teams there paying the bills, then the cost per athlete undoubtedly would increase and the money from a partial or full paid bid wouldn't cover nearly as much. Those are just my thoughts. Certainly sponsorship of some sort or a venue change might change the game, but I think we're still a ways off from that.
     
  14. alexacheer2010

    alexacheer2010 Best Flyer.. on a parent team

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    if there are less teams there, can't they make it two days instead of three? that would cut costs itself


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  15. mollymags

    mollymags I'm an announcer on CBS for Worlds (or should be)

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    I'm pretty sure every participant brings in the same "registration" costs. Teams with some form of paid bid just get part of their bill footed by an EP.


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