All-Star Division I And Division Ii At Worlds - Big Gym Separation

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I think you are confused. Nothing has been said about the bid process changing. As far as we know, bids will be given in the same way they always have been. The proposal is for separating teams into divisions at Worlds. Considering there were 80+ teams in small divisions this year I wouldn't worry about only one DII small senior or small coed team getting a bid.


Earlier you said I was assuming bids would change if they made this change with the divisions so I gave an example if they number of bids did not change. I forgot to quote your post before I'm sorry


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Large gym or small gym the athletes aren't the ones who chose the size of the gym. If small gyms want a shot at a title they should work harder, frankly if any changes are made at worlds it really should be that teams compete twice in both prelims and finals so the best teams are ensured to win.
I just don't understand giving a team a world title when there may be several other teams much better than them that don't even get top three...
 
I guess the major question is what would be the small gym definition? Right now USASF defines it as 75 or less. To me a gym with 150-200 all star athletes is not a small gym, but others disagree. I can't wait to hear more about this as the season goes on.
 
I guess the major question is what would be the small gym definition? Right now USASF defines it as 75 or less. To me a gym with 150-200 all star athletes is not a small gym, but others disagree. I can't wait to hear more about this as the season goes on.


The cutoff will interest me for sure. I agree that 150-200 is not small but in order to make a DII competitive I'd think you have to include that size gym in small. A division made up of gyms with less than 75 kids won't be a very deep division.
 
I like the idea that all paids have to compete D1.
I don't. A team that's not good enough to get a paid bid shouldn't be world champion. I like the idea of divisions, but I think they need to be split objectively based on size. It's like HPU at NCA College Nationals back when they competed. Do you think they should have competed in D1 because they got a paid bid to nationals and always kicked everyone elses butt? They're a great team, but they're in D2 because of their size and it should stay that way. Will you have standout gyms in D2 that could hang with D1? Yes, of course you will. But most of the best teams will be in D1.
Yes App State was happy they won and they should be. And no one confused them with Alabama (can't remember when it was LSU last win). :)

But one reason there is a difference is that the venues where they win are different. Winning in Pasadena or New Orleans is not given the same prestige as winning in Frisco TX or Chattanooga TN.
Not entirely relevant, but my college team lost to App State in the Championship one year and the game was in Chattanooga. So App State won in Chattanooga ;), but it still wasn't as prestigious as 1A.

Large gym or small gym the athletes aren't the ones who chose the size of the gym. If small gyms want a shot at a title they should work harder, frankly if any changes are made at worlds it really should be that teams compete twice in both prelims and finals so the best teams are ensured to win.I just don't understand giving a team a world title when there may be several other teams much better than them that don't even get top three...

It's not that simple. It's almost impossible for a new or small gym to compete with the powerhouse gyms that have existed for 20 years and are pulling athletes in from all over the country. As the years go on, the divide between them and everyone else has become more pronounced and it's oversimplistic to just say "well just work harder."
 
I guess the major question is what would be the small gym definition? Right now USASF defines it as 75 or less. To me a gym with 150-200 all star athletes is not a small gym, but others disagree. I can't wait to hear more about this as the season goes on.


I like how your thinking but are there realistically gyms with 75 athletes that can make it to worlds ? IF the decided that a small gym was 75 athletes


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@acedad if you just have DII go pre-lims in the milk house but finals in Josten's it would be a similar answer to what NCA did with college and I think it fits the purposes.

I think small gyms should be any gym that ISN'T multi-location and has less than 150 / 175 kids (I think the current size is a bit small). I also don't think you should have any divisions larger than small senior / small coed.
 
@acedad if you just have DII go pre-lims in the milk house but finals in Josten's it would be a similar answer to what NCA did with college and I think it fits the purposes.

I think small gyms should be any gym that ISN'T multi-location and has less than 150 / 175 kids (I think the current size is a bit small). I also don't think you should have any divisions larger than small senior / small coed.

My thought is that you could seperate the teams going into DII during pre-lims. If they achieve a high enough score to go into DI, they can decide whether to go into DI or DII


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My thought is that you could seperate the teams going into DII during pre-lims. If they achieve a high enough score to go into DI, they can decide whether to go into DI or DII


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You're assuming the smaller gyms would have the worse score. Not hating on Brandon but if they did their finals performance in prelims and hit for finals people would be pissed. That first performance was low enough scoring to prob make the D2.
 
You're assuming the smaller gyms would have the worse score. Not hating on Brandon but if they did their finals performance in prelims and hit for finals people would be pissed. That first performance was low enough scoring to prob make the D2.

Well isn't pre-lims for non-paid bids?
I may have my words wrong here but isn't it pre-lims, semi-finals, and finals. Now I have an assumption that Brandon would get a full paid bid since they normally do but then again rare things happen. Wouldn't they just go straight to semi-finals?


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I don't agree with the "you are not good enough if you don't get a paid bid." Anyone watch episode 23 of Cheerleaders? They are the World Champions. I assume they got a paid bid somewhere else, but even if they went on at large. Also, remember all the comparative scoring examples and Google docs and time of day you performed and name of gym, on and on, how they hold something back for scoring, don't give out the best scores right away? Am I making this up? Maybe number of years you've had a level 5 team or if you are in the first three years of having a Worlds eligible team, but then that is kind of what R5 is for, if you have over three sr level 5 teams maybe compete division 1. I think the 175/200 is a good number gym size.

Some programs late in the season may accept an AL and not take that team to another bid comp if they have two level 5 teams so they're not in essence competing for the same bid. Has anyone won bids on an AL bid or only paid? If that's the argument, then don't even let any AL teams attend. I don't agree that the ones with the paid are necessarily the better team in every circumstance.
 
I guess the major question is what would be the small gym definition? Right now USASF defines it as 75 or less. To me a gym with 150-200 all star athletes is not a small gym, but others disagree. I can't wait to hear more about this as the season goes on.

And we have 76. I thought it was bad when we had 85


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