All-Star Extra Bids

[Wendy Trekster]

So, we were discussing the lost Bids this year - With the Cheersport / NCA winners that already have bids, that division bid gets lost.

It would be a nifty spin if Cheersport or NCA take the lost bids and award them to the top scoring teams across all divisions that don't already have a bid. Much like Worlds bids are done.

But, it would be appropropriate to do that with ALL of the lost bids at each competition.

ex: A team earns a WC at a 1 day competition but then upgrades to paid during the season - the highest scoring team at that competition across all divisions that doesn't already have a Summit Bid gets offered that WC by the event producer. We pay enough at all of these competitions for the EP's to do it, that's for sure.

And again, I don't think this affects my CP this season, but it would be a cool to those 'bubble' teams, especially the micro gyms that would be honored by the opportunity.

 

[luv2cheer92]

So, we were discussing the lost Bids this year - With the Cheersport / NCA winners that already have bids, that division bid gets lost.

It would be a nifty spin if Cheersport or NCA take the lost bids and award them to the top scoring teams across all divisions that don't already have a bid. Much like Worlds bids are done.

But, it would be appropropriate to do that with ALL of the lost bids at each competition.

ex: A team earns a WC at a 1 day competition but then upgrades to paid during the season - the highest scoring team at that competition across all divisions that doesn't already have a Summit Bid gets offered that WC by the event producer. We pay enough at all of these competitions for the EP's to do it, that's for sure.

And again, I don't think this affects my CP this season, but it would be a cool to those 'bubble' teams, especially the micro gyms that would be honored by the opportunity.

I mean, wildcard and at-large bids cost the EPs nothing to give out. Even though it would get Varsity more money to do this by having more teams paying their way, I don't see it happening. They don't do it for Worlds either (pass down upgraded bids). I don't think we need to make bids easier to get.

 

[Wendy Trekster]

There are naturally fewer L4 and 5 teams in general than L1-3. The way they do ratio scoring also makes it more difficult for a L4 or 5 team to beat lower levels. The current pressure to get bids also encourages programs to only "promote" athletes who have a high level of mastery of the skills - effectively making it much harder to get "promoted" than it used to be. As more programs do this, there is more pressure on others to follow suit.

There are some positives, but I'm not sure this is good overall for the industry.

This is definitely a positive - we moved to a gym that requires you to have 75% of the level skills at team placement to be at that level. Level chasing does not benefit anyone, most importantly the athletes. There are far fewer injuries and far less stress because athletes are not trying cobble skills together during the season. If you want to be 'promoted' you have to work for it with classes and privates outside of practice.

 

[Wendy Trekster]

I mean, wildcard and at-large bids cost the EPs nothing to give out. Even though it would get Varsity more money to do this by having more teams paying their way, I don't see it happening. They don't do it for Worlds either (pass down upgraded bids). I don't think we need to make bids easier to get.

True about passing down bids post competition - but with the lost NCA / Cheersport bids, it could have easily been done on a score-based system.

 

[BlueCat]

This is definitely a positive - we moved to a gym that requires you to have 75% of the level skills at team placement to be at that level. Level chasing does not benefit anyone, most importantly the athletes. There are far fewer injuries and far less stress because athletes are not trying cobble skills together during the season. If you want to be 'promoted' you have to work for it with classes and privates outside of practice.

As an industry, we needed to slow down the progressions and focus on technique. I agree that has been a positive. My concern is that as we continue to put pressure on winning at all levels with such high scores that you beat other divisions for bids, we will move too far in that direction.

You said 75%? That is far closer to 100% in our area - and "having" a skill has a far higher standard than it used to. In some ways, it is already like you have to pass your 5th grade final exams before you enter the 5th grade. Soon, we will require "A"s on finals to enter that grade.

I am also very bothered by the fact that teams winning competitions is becoming far less important to them than whether their name gets called out during a webcast the following Monday night.

 

[Cheerlegal]

Yes, this. It seems like there are very few teams competing for the level 4 and 5 bids. Not sure if this is a good/fair thing.

It actually works out to benefit the 4.2 teams

 

[Lablover]

It actually works out to benefit the 4.2 teams

Yes, we’re in a division that competes with 4.2 for bids and it appears that 4.2 scores higher in general than non worlds 5 and jr/Sr restricted. Also the other variable I’ve noticed is that 4.2, 5 and 5R are not always judged by same panel. Kind of makes it difficult to have “even” playing field for bids that are awarded based on score.

 

[luv2cheer92]

Yes, we’re in a division that competes with 4.2 for bids and it appears that 4.2 scores higher in general than non worlds 5 and jr/Sr restricted. Also the other variable I’ve noticed is that 4.2, 5 and 5R are not always judged by same panel. Kind of makes it difficult to have “even” playing field for bids that are awarded based on score.

It's not uncommon for different divisions within the same level to have different judging panels as well. Like Junior 2 vs Senior 2 having different panels.

 

[Lablover]

It's not uncommon for different divisions within the same level to have different judging panels as well. Like Junior 2 vs Senior 2 having different panels.

Seems strange not to ensure same judging panel for levels going for same bid(s)? Especially since both cheersport and nca seemed to have a panel that appeared to score higher than other panels.
Maybe it’s not logistically possible?

That’s why I like the at large bid declaration- you win your division you get the at large bid then scores are not compared across judging panels. Does affect paid bids though.

 

[luv2cheer92]

Seems strange not to ensure same judging panel for levels going for same bid(s)? Especially since both cheersport and nca seemed to have a panel that appeared to score higher than other panels.
Maybe it’s not logistically possible?

That’s why I like the at large bid declaration- you win your division you get the at large bid then scores are not compared across judging panels. Does affect paid bids though.

Yea for comps like Cheersport and NCA it's probably incredibly difficult to have all levels with the same panel. Most of the levels were even split among different halls for both comps.

 

[twincheermom]

Yes, we’re in a division that competes with 4.2 for bids and it appears that 4.2 scores higher in general than non worlds 5 and jr/Sr restricted.

I would think that on tumbling technique, 4.2 will outscore 5/5r every time. And when was the last time you saw anyone tap out of a level 2 tumbling pass? It is much more common on a 5/5r that someone taps out.

 

[dance2874]

My issue with the bid system at a comp as large as NCA is that there are SO many different panels. Some score high and some score low. It makes it truly unfair to award bids based on highest score when they didnt have the same panel. To me, a fair solution would be to have a separate panel score each level division winner on monday am to determine the 2 highest scores. As it stands now we would be better off to put all level champs name into a hat and pull out 2. I also feel like wildcards maybe shouldnt get passed down but perhaps at larges should. Some of these wildcard rounds at summit have close to 40 people in them and only 8-10 AL/Paids. And teams who won NCA with wildcards got nothing if they don't have a high enough score for a paid. I would have thought they should be guaranteed an AL like the declaration stated as well but that was not the case.

 

[Cheerfun2]

Was the Hall A panel considered low or high scoring to those of you who competed in that hall?

 

[CClilbit]

Was the Hall A panel considered low or high scoring to those of you who competed in that hall?

Definitely low. Our raw was several points lower than its been all year. And other teams we were against, we have competed against several times previously and theirs were super low as well. Hall B, on the other hand, one division, every single score in that division was above a 94, even like 8th place. Our top champ was barely above that. Eh, we have no room to argue because we stunk it up, lol. But I can see how teams that won could and should be super disappointed that teams in other rooms got paid with arguably less difficult routines. It is what it is.

 

[Cheerfun2]

Definitely low. Our raw was several points lower than its been all year. And other teams we were against, we have competed against several times previously and theirs were super low as well. Hall B, on the other hand, one division, every single score in that division was above a 94, even like 8th place. Our top champ was barely above that. Eh, we have no room to argue because we stunk it up, lol. But I can see how teams that won could and should be super disappointed that teams in other rooms got paid with arguably less difficult routines. It is what it is.

Ok, that makes me feel better! Our raw was several points lower than it’s been all year, and it was a bit disconcerting. Glad we weren’t the only ones going, “huh?”