From Flyer To Base?

[12stepCheermom]

It would be awesome if everyone could learn all positions. Unfortunately some kids (like mine) are just too short/small to be a back or base. It's not now and has never been her decision or choice to be a flyer, I know she would base in a heartbeat if she was ever given the chance...it's just not something that a coach has ever considered. Maybe the day will come and if it does then awesome, the more experience she gets in all positions, the better all-around cheerleader she will be.

It is hard to hear the "Suzie's Group" comments if something happens at competition. I am sure no one on this board would ever make those comments, but I can tell you that a lot of parents/CPs on the team say it and they say right where my little CP can hear it. It's horrible, because sometimes it is her fault, but sometimes it is not. And honestly, I can't recall a time in the 5 years she has been cheering that I have heard someone say "Oh Betty Backspot's group came down". Because of this I will NEVER allow my CP to say "So and so had a tumble bust, or so and so didn't catch a foot so her stunt came down." No blaming any particular teammates if things don't go well. She can say "we (as in our team) had a tumble bust and we dropped a stunt"...always WE, because what happens to one on a team happens to all!!

If we want to stop identifying the flyer as some 'special' position on the team, then we need to start thinking about what we say, and who we blame if something goes wrong during a stunt. Because I can tell you that if you "feel" that the success or failure of a stunt falls squarely on your shoulders and yours alone (because that is what you hear year after year), then you are going to start to feel that somehow your position is different than the others on the team. If we want to see the Princess mentality disappear, we all need to help bring that little girl back to reality by recognizing that everything that happens in cheer happens on a "team level", not an individual level.

There was a conversation about this years ago where naming groups came up. There are places that name the group "Susie's group" based on the backspots and not the flyers. I just don't think it's terribly common. I think you have the right mentality but the kids have to have it too. Mine are the first to say "that was me!" "My bad" when a stunt falls and it was their issue. They're not the slightest bit shy about owning that. A few years ago CP16 got jumped by his coach in practice (like screaming in his face) because he dropped the handstand in the pyramid because he just flat missed her hand. Coach jumps onto the mat, cp16 says "that was me, that was my fault" and the coach jumped him in front of the team and told him to "stop taking up for his girlfriend!"

Yes, it was his girlfriend at the time but it was also his fault. He missed her hand and she can't levitate on her own, but that coach blamed the flyer anyway even when he tried to claim his mistake. That doesn't help the culture when it comes from a coach.

This is our ninth year so I've heard all the competition comments. I'm like you (although admittedly I'm feeling like people are assigning some weird flyer hate label to me in this thread which makes no sense since I have a flyer), I'll say we dropped a stunt or we had 2 busts and a bobble but I don't assign groups to it. It's not like everyone didn't see it. My god-cp11 is a center flyer and the one who does all the crazy stuff in pyramid. My kids are backspots. I can tell you most of the time when my son's coed doesn't hit it's because of his grip in the catch, not his flyer (and they're point coed stunt on the worlds team). So I get the stress of people pointing fingers.....especially when they don't know what they are talking about.

But the bottom line is that has to be a cultural mentality change that involves parents, coaches and athletes to 1) own their own mistakes 2) understand that $&@? Happens and it's okay if you made one 3) learn from it to make the next skill better. That won't happen at competition. That happens on the practice mat, in the car, in the parent section etc.

But sadly, until the Susie moms (bases, backspots or flyers) that think their child is flawless 100% of the time and raise their child to think the same thing are extinct from the sidelines, those hurtful conversations at competition are not likely to ever stop. People have to be willing to step up and take personal responsibility and on the whole our culture is completely devoid of this concept. I've seen mini moms (arguably the worst SM's if not the most vocal and uncouth anyway...I think worlds 5 moms are just as bad they've just learned how to be more ninja about how/when they say it) say those things about 7 year olds that made a mistake.

They're 7.

That's unacceptable to talk about them negatively because they made a mistake....they're SEVEN.

But, I ardently believe it starts with the adults. I also believe there's not an easy or obvious answer for how to change it, but it would surely make for amazing teams if we ever figured it out.

 

[Pebbles49]

It is hard to hear the "Suzie's Group" comments if something happens at competition. I am sure no one on this board would ever make those comments, but I can tell you that a lot of parents/CPs on the team say it and they say right where my little CP can hear it. It's horrible, because sometimes it is her fault, but sometimes it is not. And honestly, I can't recall a time in the 5 years she has been cheering that I have heard someone say "Oh Betty Backspot's group came down". Because of this I will NEVER allow my CP to say "So and so had a tumble bust, or so and so didn't catch a foot so her stunt came down." No blaming any particular teammates if things don't go well. She can say "we (as in our team) had a tumble bust and we dropped a stunt"...always WE, because what happens to one on a team happens to all!!

Well, I can tell you on my daughter's team... If you become well-known for performing a certain position well, it can happen- If or when that stunt falls, everybody are saying, "Wow, I cannot believe that so and so backspot's stunt group fell instead of the flyer's stunt group...
Brag Warning:
My daughter, a backspot, has been elevated to that level and on numerous occasions have been acknowledged throughout our gym as a remarkable backspot and can keep stunts in the air literally by herself... I know last year, my daughter and I will received kisses from my daughter's flyer's Mom, everytime and whenever we showed up to the gym and competitions...(no lie!!!) So, it is possible for Bases and Backspots to outshine flyers on a team...:kiss:

 

[Keep_Believing]

"So, it is possible for Bases and Backspots to outshine flyers on a team" Team sport, instead of trying to out shine each other, let's shine together.

 

[driverto6]

It's awesome that your daughter is so well thought of at her gym. But it still bothers me that anyone would say that "suzie backspot's group fell!" It just seems to assign blame to only one of the four teammates in that stunt group.

I guess it's a tough problem all the way around.


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[Pebbles49]

My daughter actually has the opposite problem - She pretty much always been a Backspot since doing AS cheer, but she practice quite a bit with stretching and doing all the things that flyers normally do because she wants to try flying... She actually contemplated trying out for a Senior Level 2 team, so she can fly, but everybody told her she is needed on her team... It is hard to find 11 yo of her size to be on a Youth team... Furthermore, most people who hear about her wanting to be on a Level 2 team - thinks she is crazy to drop down...

What do FB think? Should she try flying on Lvl 2 or just forget it and stick with Backspotting on Lvl 5 teams?

 

[Pebbles49]

"So, it is possible for Bases and Backspots to outshine flyers on a team" Team sport, instead of trying to out shine each other, let's shine together.

Definitely true Kris, but I was trying to show that sometimes the opposite can happen... I think at my gym, Bases and Backspots are so revere, especially, backspots!

 

[FlexyTumblerMom]

My daughter actually has the opposite problem - She pretty much always been a Backspot since doing AS cheer, but she practice quite a bit with stretching and doing all the things that flyers normally do because she wants to try flying... She actually contemplated trying out for a Senior Level 2 team, so she can fly, but everybody told her she is needed on her team... It is hard to find 11 yo of her size to be on a Youth team... Furthermore, most people who hear about her wanting to be on a Level 2 team - thinks she is crazy to drop down...

What do FB think? Should she try flying on Lvl 2 or just forget it and stick with Backspotting on Lvl 5 teams?

She can't do both?

So am I understanding that she is big for 11? So she makes a great backspot for youth flyers, but would still be small enough to fly on senior 2?

So her level 5 is a youth level 5? That's impressive.

 

[Pebbles49]

She can't do both?

So am I understanding that she is big for 11? So she makes a great backspot for youth flyers, but would still be small enough to fly on senior 2?

So her level 5 is a youth level 5? That's impressive.

No, she cannot do both because of the lvl 5 and lvl 2 teams at my gym have different competition schedules...

Yes, my daughter at age 11 is 5'6'' and weighs around 105lbs and strong as an ox, I believe she will be small enough to fly on Senior lvl teams but she does not have enough experience to fly on higher level teams (I was actually thinking, maybe even level 1) and have done it at College clinics, but she is too big for Junior lvl teams...

Last year, I remembered witnessing my daughter and another backspot on the team, who aged off the team, as bases were able to lift a 200+lb muscular Coach (man) in the air... impressive to say the least...

 

[darlingsmomx4]

@BowCat...I am in "recovery" from anorexia myself and can totally relate. I was never into cheer but I was a figure skater. One thing that I was taught and agree with is that the disease of Anorexia is just like an alcoholic. You never totally recover. I've fought it for over 20+ yrs and have 3 daughters that I pray for everyday that never go thru the hell and horror that I have!
I advocate strongly for healthy bodies and if anyone needs any advice I can try to help or direct you to someone professional.
To anyone out there...please listen...I'm open and honest because I don't want anyone to endure what I have and still do. I've caused irreversible damage to my heart, plus other issues. Don't focus on weight!!


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Well said, I have a 15 year old daughter who spent 6 months of the past year in treatment for anorexia/ bulimia.

 

[FlexyTumblerMom]

No, she cannot do both because of the lvl 5 and lvl 2 teams at my gym have different competition schedules...

Yes, my daughter at age 11 is 5'6'' and weighs around 105lbs and strong as an ox, I believe she will be small enough to fly on Senior lvl teams but she does not have enough experience to fly on higher level teams (I was actually thinking, maybe even level 1) and have done it at College clinics, but she is too big for Junior lvl teams...

Last year, I remembered witnessing my daughter and another backspot on the team, who aged off the team, as bases were able to lift a 200+lb muscular Coach (man) in the air... impressive to say the least...

I'd say re: do level 2 to fly vs. stay on level 5, I'd say if your CP has a lot of level 5 tumbling skills, I'd stay on level 5. If she's on 5 mostly for the basing, I'd consider the 2 just to get the flying experience. Maybe talk to the coaches and see what they say - maybe they'd work something out for you where she could do a little of both. Those kind of basing skills, I'd think they'd want to do what it takes to make her happy .

 

[TheVipersMom]

Not saying this about your cp but what I have noticed with a lot of youth 5s is the amazing backspots are needed to hold up these level 5 stunts but they aren't always level 5 athletes. They are usually just close. I find that they usually have a bunch of little kids for flyers easily level 5 as they really don't have a bottom age. When it comes to basing they usually need a more experienced/ older back (usually because with the older kids you get bigger kids) wether they have level 5 skills or not.

If your kid is one of those amazing back spots and total packages with all around level 5 skills that will likely move onto a j5/and s5 shortly their after. That can hang with the big girls doing big things when they have a larger handful of kids to choose from then I'd say she would much better benefit from the level 5 experience.

If she is 11 she will be aging off youth soon and if she is going to be put on a j3/s3 after that if she isn't needed anymore because she is no longer that big backspot compared to the rest of the team and she isn't needed for level 5 because of tumbling then I think I'd definitely want her to get her feet wet flying now.

If you don't think she will be immediately tracked level 5 still once she ages off youth it may be better if she has some flying ability for a senior team to start working that level 2/3 flying!


Again I don't know much about her other then she came from gymnastics I just know I have seen commonly with youth level 5s not twinkles but in general the backs are usually the ones most in need (not flyers lol) so sometimes they take them anyways. I'm sure there are still plenty of age eligible youth 5 backs with all skills so what I said may mean nothing!




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[kobegirl]

Please share that story @retiredl5cheer because all we are offered are woe stories from ex-flyers... It will be refreshing to hear the other side...Tbh, I have heard about bases, who are placed on Junior and Senior level teams, particularly aging off of a Youth team, who are suddenly become too small to base and are very reluctant flyers,,, but the ex-bases normally will take flying classes and not write about their woes of being an ex-base and how they will quit, if they cannot continue being a base.

My cp's side-base 1st yr worlds, ---- then main-base 2nd yr worlds was 2"shorter than her.....she is now flying in college at GSU. That is her side-basing with a mainbase 2"taller than her in my avatar. She was on her toes the whole time basing.....she was sooooo strong and proud to be 1 of 20. And sooooo appreciated! And now flying co-ed in college! Life changes year to year!

 

[Senior5Allie]

OK I just read this thread. I feel like I'm reading a different thread than y'all. Why is everyone so mad at the poor girl? I guess I just don't get why every single person has to be happy with everything. What is wrong with wanting to fly? I have never understood that on here.

When parents want their kids to fly and are disappointed, I get why everyone gets annoyed. But an actual athlete can't be upset and disappointed? Someone used football as an example. Well, I assure you, yes, the football player would be salty too, if he was told to play a position he didn't try out for, and had never played before. Even in field hockey we had positions that we each liked; when she changed it, we'd get frustrated.

I've applied for jobs I wanted and been offered a different position in the same company. Same pay, same "rank," just not the one I wanted. Guess what? I was salty as all get out about it. And I'm a grown woman.

News flash: it's ok to be disappointed and upset when you don't get what you want. It's ok to come to the message board that we all use for support and vent. It's really OK to want to do one thing and not another.

And it really is actually OK to want to be a star. What? Yes, it's true. (and I know the op says she doesn't only want that, but I'd say that too in this crowd) I work with nothing but people who want to be stars. They audition every week for stuff. Sometimes they get starring roles - sometimes they get put in the ensemble. And you know what? They get disappointed and salty about it. And then they move on and sing and dance in the background like it's what they wanted all along. Believe it or not, this is normal, AND OK.

She's said at least 57 times now that she was emotional when she originally posted and STILL people are telling her to get over herself? I think there's quite a few people in this thread that that need to get over themselves. The OP isn't one of them.

Thank you! I was going to post the same thing basically but was late to reading the thread and you beat me to it lol. The OP has made it super clear that she was emotional at the time and is now ok or working on it and going to do her best. Why are people still making it like she's being ridiculous or not a team player? If I'm missing something then please fill me in. I hate to see someone looked down on for how they felt at first. It's not like everyone keeps trying to help her and she just keeps saying that only flying is important or worth it for her. Your last sentence is perfect.

ETA- I know we have moved past discussing the OP but I just wanted to say what I posted. Didn't mean to rehash. Carry on.

 

[Cheer Dad]

Thank you! I was going to post the same thing basically but was late to reading the thread and you beat me to it lol. The OP has made it super clear that she was emotional at the time and is now ok or working on it and going to do her best. Why are people still making it like she's being ridiculous or not a team player? If I'm missing something then please fill me in. I hate to see someone looked down on for how they felt at first. It's not like everyone keeps trying to help her and she just keeps saying that only flying is important or worth it for her. Your last sentence is perfect.

ETA- I know we have moved past discussing the OP but I just wanted to say what I posted. Didn't mean to rehash. Carry on.

Apparently you haven't moved on like the rest yet.

Sorry, couldn't resist

 

[Pebbles49]

Not saying this about your cp but what I have noticed with a lot of youth 5s is the amazing backspots are needed to hold up these level 5 stunts but they aren't always level 5 athletes. They are usually just close. I find that they usually have a bunch of little kids for flyers easily level 5 as they really don't have a bottom age. When it comes to basing they usually need a more experienced/ older back (usually because with the older kids you get bigger kids) wether they have level 5 skills or not.

If your kid is one of those amazing back spots and total packages with all around level 5 skills that will likely move onto a j5/and s5 shortly their after. That can hang with the big girls doing big things when they have a larger handful of kids to choose from then I'd say she would much better benefit from the level 5 experience.

If she is 11 she will be aging off youth soon and if she is going to be put on a j3/s3 after that if she isn't needed anymore because she is no longer that big backspot compared to the rest of the team and she isn't needed for level 5 because of tumbling then I think I'd definitely want her to get her feet wet flying now.

If you don't think she will be immediately tracked level 5 still once she ages off youth it may be better if she has some flying ability for a senior team to start working that level 2/3 flying!


Again I don't know much about her other then she came from gymnastics I just know I have seen commonly with youth level 5s not twinkles but in general the backs are usually the ones most in need (not flyers lol) so sometimes they take them anyways. I'm sure there are still plenty of age eligible youth 5 backs with all skills so what I said may mean nothing!




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@Kris10boo , Truthfully, my daughter has some level 5 tumbling skills (fulls, but no double fulls, standing fulls, etc.) but I must admit, she can be inconsistent in landing her standing backs after jumps sequence, which she is working on now(in privates)- but performs all other areas well - particularly stunting and dancing... But she always wanted to fly for some reason and I think, it is the 'grass is greener' effect going on here. However, I never discussed with my daughter the things she will be given up: tumbling wise, if she were to do level 1/2 flying, but now, I do not need to have this conversation...
Last week's practice was really hard on flyers - she came home (moaning and groaning over the flyers, saying that she no longer wanted to be a flyer...Because she was upset watching the agony that those flyers had to endure at practice and she witnessed so many flyers last week, being dropped hard from stunts and for now, she has changed her mind about flying and she was upset at some of the backspots on her team... (Me: Phew, thank you!)

Serious note -Really, I think in my mind, my daughter is only talking about flying because this is an area she has never tried and so, she wants to see if she can do it, under pressure and in a routine... But I think, if she were ever offer a flying position, she will turn it down flat... Just all talk on her part, but she definitely respect those flyers who fly level 5...

PS: For now, I will let my daughter dream about it (flying) and continue to take her to the different Clinics to practice flying in an uber protected environment from falling hard from stunts, which as her Mom never want to see and wants her to ONLY fly on a level 1 team for SAFETY, if that chance ever happen...NOT!