All-Star Government And Stay To Play

[catlady]

This article is a couple of years old but, I do feel it does an excellent job of showing how government uses power and incentives with hotel tax dollars for publicly owned convention centers to attract business. While not discussed in this article, large government owned sport fields use STP, as well. If you would like to know more about why STP is in existence, this spells it out. This article is about a proposed Senate Bill 508 in Illinois which would allow hotel tax dollars to be used on publicly owned convention centers to acquire new customers and increase tourism. Sports such as All Star and club sports where large venues, high ceilings, and multiple fields are needed don't have many options. Note how the hotel tax dollars would not be used to attract tourism on privately owned convention centers.

The second article stating the bill passed.

Private convention center owners concerned bill in Springfield could hurt business - Chicago Tribune

Illinois Senate passes Bill providing cost savings for new conventions | RCMA Web

 

[SharkDad]

The vast majority of parents that I have dealt with over a number of years don't care that there are government taxes or political influences at stake. They care about:

1. There are kickback to the industry either to the EP or all the way back to the gym for stay to play for THEIR (parents and athletes) business and they don't see any of it.

2. Not anything in this article explains what an EP FORCES customers to stay at certain hotels. Many parents could save money by driving a little farther, staying at a family member/friend's house or using points from work travel.

Nothing defensible about stay-to-play from a customer perspective that anyone I know has seen.

 

[catlady]

The vast majority of parents that I have dealt with over a number of years don't care that there are government taxes or political influences at stake. They care about:

1. There are kickback to the industry either to the EP or all the way back to the gym for stay to play for THEIR (parents and athletes) business and they don't see any of it.

2. Not anything in this article explains what an EP FORCES customers to stay at certain hotels. Many parents could save money by driving a little farther, staying at a family member/friend's house or using points from work travel.

Nothing defensible about stay-to-play from a customer perspective that anyone I know has seen.

You say my vision is skewed but, it can't be laid out any more clearly or rudimentary than this. The same government that provides the kickbacks is the same government that dictates the rules for using their venue. Where do you think they're getting the hotel tax money to pay the incentives for using their venues?! From the city that owns the venue. What hotels do you think they'll have you use first?! The hotels in their city. It doesn't help tourism if they can't make you stay in their city. It works the same way in cities with large sport fields that do tournaments.

I do believe people deserve truthful information and I know people are wise enough to understand that just because they don't get an individual check back from Varsity from the government provided incentive, that it doesn't mean they don't benefit from it on offset costs. I encourage parents to do their own investigating and not rely solely on the information they get on this board.

 

[Lisa Seye]

You say my vision is skewed but, it can't be laid out any more clearly or rudimentary than this. The same government that provides the kickbacks is the same government that dictates the rules for using their venue. Where do you think they're getting the hotel tax money to pay the incentives for using their venues?! From the city that owns the venue. What hotels do you think they'll have you use first?! The hotels in their city. It doesn't help tourism if they can't make you stay in their city. It works the same way in cities with large sport fields that do tournaments.

I do believe people deserve truthful information and I know people are wise enough to understand that just because they don't get an individual check back from Varsity from the government provided incentive, that it doesn't mean they don't benefit from it on offset costs. I encourage parents to do their own investigating and not rely solely on the information they get on this board.

Regards STP, I checked out hotels on STP regular prices versus STP prices. The hotels for some STP comps were priced below their regular prices, but the were all top dollar hotels that cost more anyway. The hotels I would nomally choose for their good value were not even an option. So even at a discount, those high dollar hotels are waaay more than I can afford. I also checked other stay to plays where you can pick any hotel in the designated event city using the travel link BUT those charge an extra fee for every single hotel even the value ones. So those are definitely more expensive for every hotel. Bottom line, unless you are loaded and normally stay at those top dollar hotels, STP is a rip off for the average cheer parent. So cheer continues to price people away. I am not sure how much longer we can hang in there and that's sad because my daughter loves all star cheer and is pretty good at it (as I am sure we all think of our cps lol).

 

[catlady]

@Lisa Seye I agree. Ultimately, I hope gyms will start utilizing 1 day events more often. I think those of us that have been doing this for a while are stuck in the "good 'ol days" and feel it is necessary to attend every National and nearby two day event. I can only speak for my own family but, my kids do like their Summit bids. I'm now starting to realize that a Wild Card bid equates to one more day at Disney and some risk but, all of those 2 or more day events to get an at large or paid bid require a lot more hotel stay and missed school. IMO, a lot of energy and blame has been directed in the wrong direction; hotel, flights, rental cars and food don't go to Varsity or gyms, and it's the travel that's driving many parents away.

New question or thought to parents:

Would you be willing to attend more one day events, rather than attending as many two day events?

 

[Momager]

Level 5 teams need to attend bid events. The gym usually needs to take a number of teams to a competition in order to be bid eligible. If I were not in a gym that was in one of those situations, I'm sure I'd prefer to travel less. However, given my own experience with a short but intense all star career, I don't think she would have spent years working her way through the cheer ranks at current day prices.
I will also note that soccer stay to plays hotels were always considerably cheaper than cheer, even in some of the same cities. Also gymnastics never had stay to play at any of the away meets we attended, even Disney, Philly, Baltimore.

 

[Lisa Seye]

@Lisa Seye I agree. Ultimately, I hope gyms will start utilizing 1 day events more often. I think those of us that have been doing this for a while are stuck in the "good 'ol days" and feel it is necessary to attend every National and nearby two day event. I can only speak for my own family but, my kids do like their Summit bids. I'm now starting to realize that a Wild Card bid equates to one more day at Disney and some risk but, all of those 2 or more day events to get an at large or paid bid require a lot more hotel stay and missed school. IMO, a lot of energy and blame has been directed in the wrong direction; hotel, flights, rental cars and food don't go to Varsity or gyms, and it's the travel that's driving many parents away.

New question or thought to parents:

Would you be willing to attend more one day events, rather than attending as many two day events?

I think with the new WC rules allowing three teams to move on, it might be a calculated risk worth it for some teams who have a great chance of placing top three, for others that WC bid is a waste of time and money because they have to commit to the whole weekend no matter what happens. I love one day comps where I can drive there and back in one day lol. We have a good mix I think of two day comps and one day comps this season. I wonder how many Paid, At Large, WC bids there are this season versus last season?

 

[california cheer mom]

Our gym really tries not to do STP comps, I know there are some gyms that are absolutely refusing to do STP comps at all. There are still some 2 days comps that don't have STP (Duel in the Desert is one).

 

[catlady]

Level 5 teams need to attend bid events. The gym usually needs to take a number of teams to a competition in order to be bid eligible. If I were not in a gym that was in one of those situations, I'm sure I'd prefer to travel less. However, given my own experience with a short but intense all star career, I don't think she would have spent years working her way through the cheer ranks at current day prices.
I will also note that soccer stay to plays hotels were always considerably cheaper than cheer, even in some of the same cities. Also gymnastics never had stay to play at any of the away meets we attended, even Disney, Philly, Baltimore.

Our gym really tries not to do STP comps, I know there are some gyms that are absolutely refusing to do STP comps at all. There are still some 2 days comps that don't have STP (Duel in the Desert is one).

Absolutely, not all cities require STP to use their convention centers. Disney is not a STP event for AS either, they do offer travel packages. Duel in the Desert is a good example of a non STP event but, it does have this option on their website:

Palm Springs is not a stay-to-play event, but for discounted hotels, please go to: Varsity All Star Room Block Request Form. If you have any problems or questions please email[email protected]. For more information please visit our website at www.spiritsports.varsity.com

There are several 2 day bid events out there, even with STP, that are much cheaper than the mega events. I'm just wondering if attending these mega events is a mindset for those of us that have been doing it for a while have a hard time breaking. It used to be it was hard to get video of your competition and now it's all over the place. This is the first year we aren't attending NCA, I was thrilled because it was our most expensive....but, I sit watching it on the live stream thinking, we should be there for some reason.

 

[Momager]

Disney is not stay to play, but you have register as a commuter team at a higher registration fee (even if you stay the Swan)

 

[SharkDad]

Absolutely, not all cities require STP to use their convention centers. Disney is not a STP event for AS either, they do offer travel packages. Duel in the Desert is a good example of a non STP event but, it does have this option on their website:

Palm Springs is not a stay-to-play event, but for discounted hotels, please go to: Varsity All Star Room Block Request Form. If you have any problems or questions please email[email protected]. For more information please visit our website at www.spiritsports.varsity.com

There are several 2 day bid events out there, even with STP, that are much cheaper than the mega events. I'm just wondering if attending these mega events is a mindset for those of us that have been doing it for a while have a hard time breaking. It used to be it was hard to get video of your competition and now it's all over the place. This is the first year we aren't attending NCA, I was thrilled because it was our most expensive....but, I sit watching it on the live stream thinking, we should be there for some reason.

Why does this feel like a Varsity ad?

I thought we addressed this. Cities do not require stay to play, event producers do.

 

[catlady]

Why does this feel like a Varsity ad?

I thought we addressed this. Cities do not require stay to play, event producers do.

Once again, the article can't make it any clearer IMO SharkDad. You want to stand by blaming Varsity, I get it, and frankly I don't care. I don't know who "we" is but, I provided people on the board with an article from the Chicago Tribune that lays out the Senate Bill and you're giving me "we addressed this". I don't know who "we" is but, I have to assume since you don't give me names, "we" are the same people that "address" things and provide nothing except "we said so".

Why doesn't Varsity have STP at all of their events?

 

[SharkDad]

@catlady We is you and I. You posted an article on incentives from a city to local convention centers.

I've stated before and it's a fact that stay to play is an event producer decision and not a result of municipality incentives.

I have never tried to blame Varsity for things or say negative things about them, only point out the facts to parents/athletes who have been involved in this youth activity being run by an industry controlled almost 80% or more by a single company.

 

[SharkDad]

Sorry I didn't answer your question but the fact that they don't shows that they don't have to.

Counter point- why do they primarily require it at big events?

 

[MissCongeniality]

Priceless! Found this on a website for hoteliers in an article discussing how they need to "sell" stay to play to their guests-

Rate is more than the cost of a room
Individuals booking under a stay-to-play arrangement must be aware that the rate they pay is not just for the room. They also are paying for efficient management of travel logistics.

Educated sports group consumers understand the inherent value of paying for event logistics so they can give their undivided attention to their athletes and the event. How much a sports group consumer is willing to pay and what is defined as reasonable for the added value is based on variables that include the type of event, location, duration, etc. Negotiated rates are usually discounted from normal transient rates and are identified as the best available rates for the event. As long as the sports group consumer does not feel they are being taken advantage of, they will typically accept the rate.

The reality is that the consumer and the hotel are both getting the short end here... Hotel takes a "lower rate" but the overall rate to the consumer is higher in order to cover "efficient management of travel logistics" aka to pay off the kindly organizer bringing all these "stay here or your dear childs team is dq'd" parents to town. The organizer is the one who profits in the form of free rooms for staff and others they want to comp, more money to pay for the event venue and, ultimately, more net income. So no, don't blame the hotels... they aren't the culprit nor are they sticking extra $ in their pockets per room (not to be confused with ... if they event wields a heavy hand then hotels that fall in line can get more rooms filled albeit at a lower profit per room to themselves)

And no matter how they try to twist it...the families are paying more... but think about it... that extra brings you the "efficient management of travel logistics"

HNN - How to win the stay-to-play game

Oh and as far as why some comps don't require it... I bet it has more to do with the hoteliers themselves (esp in areas with a tight hotel community) in those areas saying "um, no thank you" rather than a benevolent event producer.