High School Hs Higher Stunting Difficulty

[dat.jpp]

I'm starting to see teams high school teams doing 1 1/4 and 1 1/2 up twist ups. Do you see kick doubles and double downs coming back to the school cheer world?

 

[cheer25mom]

Nope. IMO it would be ill advised to allow them on dead floor in high school. Its too much of a liability.

 

[tojofasho]

Nope. IMO it would be ill advised to allow them on dead floor in high school. Its too much of a liability.

I will never understand why double downs are deemed more dangerous than the dreaded pancake stunt, though. Like "oh yeah you can't rotate twice, that would be crazy, but go ahead and literally go face first towards the ground." IMO they're both huge liabilities; my backspot in high school got her tooth knocked out on a double down that went wrong, but then this past year I had a cheerleader slip through the bases hands on a pancake and sprain her neck/get a concussion. I just never understood the logic in getting rid of double downs and putting in equally dangerous stunts haha, but I know not everyone thinks pancakes are deadly like I do.

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

I will never understand why double downs are deemed more dangerous than the dreaded pancake stunt, though. Like "oh yeah you can't rotate twice, that would be crazy, but go ahead and literally go face first towards the ground." IMO they're both huge liabilities; my backspot in high school got her tooth knocked out on a double down that went wrong, but then this past year I had a cheerleader slip through the bases hands on a pancake and sprain her neck/get a concussion. I just never understood the logic in getting rid of double downs and putting in equally dangerous stunts haha, but I know not everyone thinks pancakes are deadly like I do.

If taught/performed correctly, the pancake stunt is a ton safer than the double down. If the top has adequate flexibility to perform the pancake stunt correctly, she puts herself in a position for the safest possible landing in case of a missed catch (any good stunt person will tell you that the safest landing is flat on the back). In the double down, the danger factor isn't really to the top, but to the bases. Jim Lord with the AACCA would be the person to ask, but I would bet the number of concussions related to flying elbows, 1 1/2 downs onto the face with arms out, knee-scissors, etc was astronomical compared to the number of injuries of any time related to pancakes. I've got a group now that can pancake like nobody's business, but none of them could spin through a double down in a great body position.

I'm starting to see teams high school teams doing 1 1/4 and 1 1/2 up twist ups. Do you see kick doubles and double downs coming back to the school cheer world?

I hope not. Do you not find the high school routines at nationals to be much more entertaining now that everyone isn't trying (and mostly failing) to kick double/double down out of every stunt? The double down had become the end-all be-all dismount of high school cheer, and people had completely quit working on being creative, much like all star routines have become. Every level 5 all star stunt sequence is exactly the same these days. They all do a 1 1/2 up or a double up to some over-stretched body position, do some kind of inversion, a tick tock or two, and double down. All the flashy choreography, etc, just sucks the life out of me as they could be doing real skills during that time.

 

[cheer25mom]

If taught/performed correctly, the pancake stunt is a ton safer than the double down. If the top has adequate flexibility to perform the pancake stunt correctly, she puts herself in a position for the safest possible landing in case of a missed catch (any good stunt person will tell you that the safest landing is flat on the back). In the double down, the danger factor isn't really to the top, but to the bases. Jim Lord with the AACCA would be the person to ask, but I would bet the number of concussions related to flying elbows, 1 1/2 downs onto the face with arms out, knee-scissors, etc was astronomical compared to the number of injuries of any time related to pancakes. I've got a group now that can pancake like nobody's business, but none of them could spin through a double down in a great body position.

this. As the parent of a base, spinning down scares me more than pretty much anything else.

 

[ScottyB]

They all do a 1 1/2 up or a double up to some over-stretched body position, do some kind of inversion, a tick tock or two, and double down. All the flashy choreography, etc, just sucks the life out of me as they could be doing real skills during that time.

bingo

 

[coacha]

I'm starting to see teams high school teams doing 1 1/4 and 1 1/2 up twist ups. Do you see kick doubles and double downs coming back to the school cheer world?

I hope not. The number of HS teams attempting double downs that should never have been even thinking about it was way too high (and frankly scary).

Spinning on the way up when you're not really at that level? Not a good idea - but at least the momentum is upwards and hopefully the flyer is staying in her "tube". Spinning on the way down when you're not at that level? REALLY BAD IDEA.

And TBH, at least in UCA circles, HS teams rarely even cradle anymore.

 

[dat.jpp]

What about only advanced high schools and maybe even advanced middle schools could be allowed to double down?

 

[Tealxblack25]

I will never understand why double downs are deemed more dangerous than the dreaded pancake stunt, though. Like "oh yeah you can't rotate twice, that would be crazy, but go ahead and literally go face first towards the ground." IMO they're both huge liabilities; my backspot in high school got her tooth knocked out on a double down that went wrong, but then this past year I had a cheerleader slip through the bases hands on a pancake and sprain her neck/get a concussion. I just never understood the logic in getting rid of double downs and putting in equally dangerous stunts haha, but I know not everyone thinks pancakes are deadly like I do.

No, you are right. They are deadly and my team doesn't do them - we put in a different inversion that's more visual and got the same amount of points!

 

[cheer25mom]

What about only advanced high schools and maybe even advanced middle schools could be allowed to double down?

NO, NO, NO not worth the risk!!!!

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

What about only advanced high schools and maybe even advanced middle schools could be allowed to double down?

Who determines what high school is advanced versus what high school is not advanced? Even in All Stars where there are five levels, coaches pull skills the kids have no business doing just to say they have a "level 5" team. All high school teams currently compete under the same set of safety guidelines. I think we should keep it that way.

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

No, you are right. They are deadly and my team doesn't do them - we put in a different inversion that's more visual and got the same amount of points!

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Pancakes are not that much more dangerous for all involved than a cradle. They only become dangerous if they're being taught to flyers who do not have the flexibility to pike themselves completely, or the guts to go hard. That's when a coach should be intelligent enough to put a stop to them (kudos to you, as some people aren't).

the problem with the double down was that it got to a point to where everyone was doing them, and probably less than 5% of the teams should have been.

 

[Official OWECheer]

I hope not. Do you not find the high school routines at nationals to be much more entertaining now that everyone isn't trying (and mostly failing) to kick double/double down out of every stunt? The double down had become the end-all be-all dismount of high school cheer, and people had completely quit working on being creative, much like all star routines have become. Every level 5 all star stunt sequence is exactly the same these days. They all do a 1 1/2 up or a double up to some over-stretched body position, do some kind of inversion, a tick tock or two, and double down. All the flashy choreography, etc, just sucks the life out of me as they could be doing real skills during that time.

This and 99% of dances. I find myself getting nostalgic when I watch old all-star routines. And I don't want helicopter-leg double downs to come back. Most teams (in HS and all-star) don't even hit clean full downs, why increase the difficulty window?

And don't get me started on tumbling.... we are going to need a serious incentive to clean things up in the coming years.

 

[FamousxMindset]

I've cringed a lot more these past couple of seasons watching these terrifying braced pyramid inversions, clumsy paper dolls, and deadly kick full downs than I ever have while watching teams doubling down ijs.

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

This and 99% of dances. I find myself getting nostalgic when I watch old all-star routines. And I don't want helicopter-leg double downs to come back. Most teams (in HS and all-star) don't even hit clean full downs, why increase the difficulty window?

And don't get me started on tumbling.... we are going to need a serious incentive to clean things up in the coming years.

I don't know about your area, but the janky tumbling I find in high school around here is a direct result of middle school coaches jumping up and down when a kid flops herself over into a triangle position on a backhandspring for the first time, and saying "awesome, now go try your tuck" in the same breath.