High School Hs Higher Stunting Difficulty

[cheer25mom]

Don't the bases have to dip as she lifts up through there shoulders?

Of course.

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

Don't the bases have to dip as she lifts up through there shoulders?

Dip and drive like a big cradle, yes. I was specifically talking through the top's part, sorry.

 

[AndyT_T]

Bringing this thread back because I have question lol

What about double twist baskets?
Kick fulls and other two skill baskets are legal in high school cheer. If we're trying to create a skill progression from middle school through to high school and then college I think that there is room in a high school cheer curriculum for a double twist somewhere. It seems reasonable to me to have a double basket and pyramid flips being a training ground preparing girls for collegiate baskets and dismounts without being unrealistic or dangerous.
Teaching girls to control and time a twist is an important skill in our sport and currently I think it's lacking in high school.

Thoughts?

 

[coacha]

Bringing this thread back because I have question lol

What about double twist baskets?
Kick fulls and other two skill baskets are legal in high school cheer. If we're trying to create a skill progression from middle school through to high school and then college I think that there is room in a high school cheer curriculum for a double twist somewhere. It seems reasonable to me to have a double basket and pyramid flips being a training ground preparing girls for collegiate baskets and dismounts without being unrealistic or dangerous.
Teaching girls to control and time a twist is an important skill in our sport and currently I think it's lacking in high school.

Thoughts?

My team does no baskets at all. We compete UCA, where they aren't necessary for the scoresheet. Our home football field has a cinder track and only maybe 2-3 of our away games take place on rubberized tracks, so baskets are illegal to perform at 75% of our football games. Obviously, they are illegal at basketball games on the court. So, they are a skill that I have determined that is not worth the practice time for the use we would get out of them.

That said, my cheerleaders are always begging to work on them. We were small coed this past year, and there are more coed teams that do baskets (obviously). So, I paid close attention to the teams doing them this year at our state competition to see if I am doing a disservice to any of my future college cheerleaders by not working on them. There were quite a few baskets thrown at our state competition (I assume other brands put more worth on baskets than UCA?) but very few were well done. Some were downright scary. I would be really surprised if the rules were loosened on baskets based on my observations. Too many programs attempting that shouldn't be.

 

[AndyT_T]

My team does no baskets at all. We compete UCA, where they aren't necessary for the scoresheet. Our home football field has a cinder track and only maybe 2-3 of our away games take place on rubberized tracks, so baskets are illegal to perform at 75% of our football games. Obviously, they are illegal at basketball games on the court. So, they are a skill that I have determined that is not worth the practice time for the use we would get out of them.

That said, my cheerleaders are always begging to work on them. We were small coed this past year, and there are more coed teams that do baskets (obviously). So, I paid close attention to the teams doing them this year at our state competition to see if I am doing a disservice to any of my future college cheerleaders by not working on them. There were quite a few baskets thrown at our state competition (I assume other brands put more worth on baskets than UCA?) but very few were well done. Some were downright scary. I would be really surprised if the rules were loosened on baskets based on my observations. Too many programs attempting that shouldn't be.

It is so weird that baskets aren't on the UCA scoresheet when they are HUGE on the UCA college scoresheet, especially coed, and even more so when compared to NCA.

I think sketchy double twist baskets are MUCH less scary than sketchy kick full baskets, but that might be the allstar cheerleader in me. Its so easy to get someone to twist twice given enough height, especially if the backspot throws from ankles. But kick fulls take actual body control, timing, arial awareness, etc.

What state are you in? In my state everyone does baskets, but this will be our first year going to nationals for HS so I don't really know what to expect.

Edit: if your kids are planning to do college cheer it might be worth it to spend a practice working them even if it's just straight rides and you never do them outside of practice, just so they get a feel for them. My college had kids throw tuck baskets at tryouts, and it would be a big jump to go from no baskets to tuck baskets in one day I worked with a graduating senior earlier this week on arabesque double downs last practice just so when she got to tryouts for college she would be prepared for them lol

 

[AndyT_T]

My team does no baskets at all. We compete UCA, where they aren't necessary for the scoresheet. Our home football field has a cinder track and only maybe 2-3 of our away games take place on rubberized tracks, so baskets are illegal to perform at 75% of our football games. Obviously, they are illegal at basketball games on the court. So, they are a skill that I have determined that is not worth the practice time for the use we would get out of them.

That said, my cheerleaders are always begging to work on them. We were small coed this past year, and there are more coed teams that do baskets (obviously). So, I paid close attention to the teams doing them this year at our state competition to see if I am doing a disservice to any of my future college cheerleaders by not working on them. There were quite a few baskets thrown at our state competition (I assume other brands put more worth on baskets than UCA?) but very few were well done. Some were downright scary. I would be really surprised if the rules were loosened on baskets based on my observations. Too many programs attempting that shouldn't be.

I had to google what a cinder track was :help: Those look awful! Does it hurt your kids hands/ankles when they tumble?

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

It is so weird that baskets aren't on the UCA scoresheet when they are HUGE on the UCA college scoresheet, especially coed, and even more so when compared to NCA.

I think sketchy double twist baskets are MUCH less scary than sketchy kick full baskets, but that might be the allstar cheerleader in me. Its so easy to get someone to twist twice given enough height, especially if the backspot throws from ankles. But kick fulls take actual body control, timing, arial awareness, etc.

What state are you in? In my state everyone does baskets, but this will be our first year going to nationals for HS so I don't really know what to expect.

Edit: if your kids are planning to do college cheer it might be worth it to spend a practice working them even if it's just straight rides and you never do them outside of practice, just so they get a feel for them. My college had kids throw tuck baskets at tryouts, and it would be a big jump to go from no baskets to tuck baskets in one day I worked with a graduating senior earlier this week on arabesque double downs last practice just so when she got to tryouts for college she would be prepared for them lol

It's not worth it.

There should never be a time when a coach, or anyone else, asks a kid to go from "no baskets" to "tuck baskets" in one day. Using a flipping toss as a tryout skill is taking on a huge liability for a skill that is actually rather easily taught with proper progressions.

Flipping pyramids are not a solid precursor to flipping tosses either. There is little similarity between a braced flip and a free-flying flip.

Having the back throw from the ankles and assist a double twist is poor technique and does not help a flyer learn to do the skill properly. If the only reason a girl can get around twice in a double is because she's got 15 feet of air time in a basket, she's not twisting properly.

 

[FamousxMindset]

I'm sure this will get butchered in this thread but I've recently found that having your flyers literally stand on the basket and then have the bases dip and throw helps ALOT when correcting body shapes in air for most inexperienced flyers. It sucks for the bases but you can use it as a drill or literally put in the routine my youth team basket tech went up a ton once we had them stand.

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

I'm sure this will get butchered in this thread but I've recently found that having your flyers literally stand on the basket and then have the bases dip and throw helps ALOT when correcting body shapes in air for most inexperienced flyers. It sucks for the bases but you can use it as a drill or literally put in the routine my youth team basket tech went up a ton once we had them stand.

I'm not going to butcher your teaching technique, but I am going to butcher the idea that "inexperienced flyers" should ever be doing baskets. The fact that baskets are allowed in level 2 is inherently dangerous. The progression for a basket toss USED to be a straight up extension with a cradle dismount. Since that skill is first allowed in level 2, baskets should not be an option until level 3 at least. Baskets should also not be allowed below the senior age level. The kids in youth and junior age levels are not experienced enough to make the last-second adjustments needed to catch a basket gone awry. They are also not experienced enough to anticipate those problems from the load in. Most basket errors are made in the load in, and then they get magnified at the top of the toss because of the height (imagine balancing a pencil on your finger, any tiny movement at the tip of your finger causes big movement of the eraser of the pencil). These younger kids do not have the ability to anticipate these errors and know what to expect at the top of the toss when they occur.

 

[retiredl5cheer]

I'm not going to butcher your teaching technique, but I am going to butcher the idea that "inexperienced flyers" should ever be doing baskets. The fact that baskets are allowed in level 2 is inherently dangerous. The progression for a basket toss USED to be a straight up extension with a cradle dismount. Since that skill is first allowed in level 2, baskets should not be an option until level 3 at least. Baskets should also not be allowed below the senior age level. The kids in youth and junior age levels are not experienced enough to make the last-second adjustments needed to catch a basket gone awry. They are also not experienced enough to anticipate those problems from the load in. Most basket errors are made in the load in, and then they get magnified at the top of the toss because of the height (imagine balancing a pencil on your finger, any tiny movement at the tip of your finger causes big movement of the eraser of the pencil). These younger kids do not have the ability to anticipate these errors and know what to expect at the top of the toss when they occur.

Let's talk about how baskets are still required in Mini 2...

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

Let's talk about how baskets are still required in Mini 2...

Disaster. Waiting. To. Happen?

 

[FamousxMindset]

I'm not going to butcher your teaching technique, but I am going to butcher the idea that "inexperienced flyers" should ever be doing baskets. The fact that baskets are allowed in level 2 is inherently dangerous. The progression for a basket toss USED to be a straight up extension with a cradle dismount. Since that skill is first allowed in level 2, baskets should not be an option until level 3 at least. Baskets should also not be allowed below the senior age level. The kids in youth and junior age levels are not experienced enough to make the last-second adjustments needed to catch a basket gone awry. They are also not experienced enough to anticipate those problems from the load in. Most basket errors are made in the load in, and then they get magnified at the top of the toss because of the height (imagine balancing a pencil on your finger, any tiny movement at the tip of your finger causes big movement of the eraser of the pencil). These younger kids do not have the ability to anticipate these errors and know what to expect at the top of the toss when they occur.

Every time you try a new skill technically you are inexperienced, even with all of the drills and progressions in the world the first time you do something you are still technically 'inexperienced'.

 

[FamousxMindset]

I get what you're saying about baskets in level 2 but with the current scoring rubric my 7-11 have to perform a half twisting inversion to a prep level body position in level 2 that is insane but thiis new batch of level 2 kids across the nation can handle it. Two seasons ago a commonly used level 5 (braced back handspring up to cupie) basket entry is now considered an elite level two skill, the requirements that the sport requires from our level two athletes is very different than years past. It requires much more discipline, body control, and honestly an advanced mental capacity. My kids that hit those level two elite skills are more than ready for a straight ride basket. Level two isn't just level two anymore.

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

Every time you try a new skill technically you are inexperienced, even with all of the drills and progressions in the world the first time you do something you are still technically 'inexperienced'.

I get that, I'm more critical of the "progressions" that are allowed when you consider the big picture of all star levels.

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

In reality I'd agree I don't think baskets should be done until level three but with the current scoring rubric my 7-11 have to perform a half twisting inversion to a prep level body position in level 2 that is insane. Two seasons ago a level 5 basket entry is now considered an elite level two skill, the requirements that the sport requires from our level two athletes is very different than years past. It requires much more discipline, body control, and honestly an advanced mental capacity. My kids that hit those level two elite skills are more than ready for a straight ride basket. Level two is just level two anymore.

It's dangerous and ridiculous, and it contributes to the idea that "as long as it hits, who cares what it looks like." The all star industry shuns proper progressions and strict technique in favor of circus routines that are slopped out.