All-Star Judges Challenge?

[GDaddyLS]

I'm sure many of you were watching the men's team final in the Olympics last night and noticed the "official challenge" by Japan about the scores given in the pommel horse.

(If you didn't notice, the last Japanese gymnast to compete messed up on his required handstand dismount and at the time the judges gave a 0.7 deduction b/c they felt the gymnast did not do a required skill. The judgement was successfully challenged and the 0.7 was added back to Japans score which changed the final rankings for Japan from finishing 4th to finishing 2nd overall.)

The commentators were explaining what was going on and I noticed a wad of cash (US $100 dollar bills) in the hand of the coach from Japan submitting the formal challenge. The commentators said when a formal challenge is made, the challenging team is required to pay immediately for the challenge. If the team wins the challenge they get their money back, if they lose the challenge they also lose the money.

What if there was such a system in competitive cheerleading?

 

[PullandPray23]

I'm sure many of you were watching the men's team final in the Olympics last night and noticed the "official challenge" by Japan about the scores given in the pommel horse.

(If you didn't notice, the last Japanese gymnast to compete messed up on his required handstand dismount and at the time the judges gave a 0.7 deduction b/c they felt the gymnast did not do a required skill. The judgement was successfully challenged and the 0.7 was added back to Japans score which changed the final rankings for Japan from finishing 4th to finishing 2nd overall.)

The commentators were explaining what was going on and I noticed a wad of cash (US $100 dollar bills) in the hand of the coach from Japan submitting the formal challenge. The commentators said when a formal challenge is made, the challenging team is required to pay immediately for the challenge. If the team wins the challenge they get their money back, if they lose the challenge they also lose the money.

What if there was such a system in competitive cheerleading?

some competition companies actually offer it- some even charge, just like the Olympics

 

[eliteathletics]

Jam brands has a simular challenge system- but it is more about a team calling out another team. Not a bad idea if you think about it.

 

[cheermomforever]

First the judging has to be across the board and impartial, which we know will never happen. For example in RI Us Finals we were screwed twice. One teams pyramid move was all the sudden illegal after competing it numerous times at other comps. Then, in SR2 division, the team that "won" did not get their tumbling problems deducted, but did their jackets and first! Even though the judges admitted they missed it. We should of won and another team should of also moved up. So some challenges are worthless to even bring up in cheer.

 

[King]

I actually think this is a great idea! The way things have to work for it to work is:

The USASF needs to do all scoring and deductions. The EPs can have NO control over it. This way all scoring and deductions are impartial and the same everywhere.

Scoring needs to separate who does execution and who does difficulty. Execution can only be done once and live. Difficulty should be done by video.

The difficulty and deductions are the only part that can be challenged. Execution scores are live, done once, and final. It would cost $500 for someone to challenge a difficulty score or a deduction. If the challenge is accepted you get $250 back. If you are found right, you get the whole $500 back.

You can only challenge your own score, no one elses.

All scoring must be made public (minus comments).

The EP's would have no control over what happens and would not be allowed anywhere NEAR deductions or video or risk losing USASF membership.

All challenges to scoring MUST BE MADE PUBLIC!

 

[cheerheart4life]

kingston you are a genius.

 

[12stepCheermom]

kingston ... If only. We'd immediately gain credibility as a sport just in that! It's so easy! If only the almighty dollar and the driving profit lines of EPs did not drive the industry we'd be cooking with gas!

 

[12stepCheermom]

First the judging has to be across the board and impartial, which we know will never happen. For example in RI Us Finals we were screwed twice. One teams pyramid move was all the sudden illegal after competing it numerous times at other comps. Then, in SR2 division, the team that "won" did not get their tumbling problems deducted, but did their jackets and first! Even though the judges admitted they missed it. We should of won and another team should of also moved up. So some challenges are worthless to even bring up in cheer.

Same kind of thing happened to us by the same EP in two consecutive competitions. In the first we were sandbagged and clearly won, they even said they "didn't disagree" but had to stand by their judges so our kids stayed in second to the astonishment of the arena...

....and in the next competition where we did win and the second place team challenged they suddenly overturned the placements at the last awards ceremony of the day four hours after that team had gotten their medal and banner. They didn't even tell our coaches they were going to overturn it...they found out the same time the arena found out when the announcer said "after further review" they were going to award "co-champions" from an awards ceremony four hours earlier.

Insanity.

My cp's were not on the first team that got sandbagged....they WERE on the second team that had their win taken away.....which was what actually ended up happening. They didn't make anyone "co-champions" they flat moved our kids to second, four hours later, after most of the team was back on the road home.

We always stay to the end so we were there to hear them take it away...live. Try explaining THAT to your kids.

My entire world for a scoring system like kingston outlined. And a universal score sheet!

 

[King]

More benefits of separation of live judges (who do all the impression and execution) and difficulty judges. Execution judges will still be able to reward the 'feeling' of the routine. The choreography and fun ideas (the things that people do want to preserver about cheerleading) would get rewarded as they always have (and possibly better). It would cement choreographers and music producers need in cheer.

However

Because there is a difficulty judge behind the scenes no one could trick the judges into thinking they have more skills or different skills than they have. Why is that important? Because there is no more effort at trickery people would play in the levels they are competent in (so people would be trying skills that are more confident in and therefor cheer gets safer) and would be forced to take more classes and master skills to actually be on higher level teams.

Cementing an industry, rewarding the objective, and preserving the subjective.

 

[5-6-7-8]

More benefits of separation of live judges (who do all the impression and execution) and difficulty judges. Execution judges will still be able to reward the 'feeling' of the routine. The choreography and fun ideas (the things that people do want to preserver about cheerleading) would get rewarded as they always have (and possibly better). It would cement choreographers and music producers need in cheer.

However

Because there is a difficulty judge behind the scenes no one could trick the judges into thinking they have more skills or different skills than they have. Why is that important? Because there is no more effort at trickery people would play in the levels they are competent in (so people would be trying skills that are more confident in and therefor cheer gets safer) and would be forced to take more classes and master skills to actually be on higher level teams.

Cementing an industry, rewarding the objective, and preserving the subjective.

Love the idea of separate judges for difficulty / execution. The ability to contest scores is just another benefit.

 

[TheVipersMom]

Lol all I can think back to is NCA 2012 last season, level 1 youth.

Btw, Kingston you make it sound so good. We vote you in to the Usasf to make all the important decisions!

 

[yojaehs]

I LOVE LOVE LOVE THIS!!! I've spoken to so many EP's that say their judges get it right more often than not, my reply is NO ONE KNOWS. I'd LOVE for these to be made public!!! I know they would make a FORTUNE off of "Why didn't my standing tucks score us higher (youth level 2)" bahaha

 

[Jennaw]

More benefits of separation of live judges (who do all the impression and execution) and difficulty judges. Execution judges will still be able to reward the 'feeling' of the routine. The choreography and fun ideas (the things that people do want to preserver about cheerleading) would get rewarded as they always have (and possibly better). It would cement choreographers and music producers need in cheer.

However

Because there is a difficulty judge behind the scenes no one could trick the judges into thinking they have more skills or different skills than they have. Why is that important? Because there is no more effort at trickery people would play in the levels they are competent in (so people would be trying skills that are more confident in and therefor cheer gets safer) and would be forced to take more classes and master skills to actually be on higher level teams.

Cementing an industry, rewarding the objective, and preserving the subjective.

Oh those annoying "repeat tumblers" that you have to count and give credit for every one of the nine passes they do.
I can't tell you how many times I've been red faced of the judges stand counting the one coaches daughter girl doing tumbling passes the entire routine and having to add those passes to the teams difficulty score.

 

[Jennaw]

I'm sure many of you were watching the men's team final in the Olympics last night and noticed the "official challenge" by Japan about the scores given in the pommel horse.

(If you didn't notice, the last Japanese gymnast to compete messed up on his required handstand dismount and at the time the judges gave a 0.7 deduction b/c they felt the gymnast did not do a required skill. The judgement was successfully challenged and the 0.7 was added back to Japans score which changed the final rankings for Japan from finishing 4th to finishing 2nd overall.)

The commentators were explaining what was going on and I noticed a wad of cash (US $100 dollar bills) in the hand of the coach from Japan submitting the formal challenge. The commentators said when a formal challenge is made, the challenging team is required to pay immediately for the challenge. If the team wins the challenge they get their money back, if they lose the challenge they also lose the money.

What if there was such a system in competitive cheerleading?

Oh by the way,
When I read the thread title on the main page I got excited thinking I could win something in a "judges challenge." (like it was a game or something)

What a tease!!!

 

[GDaddyLS]

Oh by the way,
When I read the thread title on the main page I got excited thinking I could win something in a "judges challenge." (like it was a game or something)

What a tease!!!

haha all I can think about reading this post is like I'm in 5th grade again saying "MADE YOU LOOK!"