College Ncata Or Stunt

[cheerforeverever]

I'm not sure why USA Cheer didn't just get involved with NCATA, maybe they already had their own thing in mind.

I thought in a past thread someone said USA Cheer offered to be a part of it (along with Varsity), but NCATA didn't want anything to do with them. Or maybe it was just Varsity. I don't know....its confusing. One of the big cheer regulators offered.

 

[yojaehs]

So the only MAJOR difference is Stunt you can still cheer games and compete at NCA/UCA and NCATA can't? If that's the case then why don't these two come together and just compromise and just make one association so that more teams compete? I think that would help speed things along, JMO. As far as the NAIA, I believe they still have to abide by the same rules and regulations set by the NCAA as do all DI,II,III A and Juco's and I don't think NCATA or Stunt have enough schools participating yet to split into different divisions

 

[coachrah]

Well Louisville is a Stunt school, and a lot of the Stunt schools are teams that aren't going to stop cheering at games anytime soon, which is requirement for NCATA. I think, as time goes on, rather than having UCA or NCA, we'll have NCATA for NCAA Title IX teams, and Stunt for teams that want to continue cheering at games and competing. I think that's the biggest difference. Plus, coed teams can't be a Title IX sport, so there's no room for them in NCATA.

Stunt is being offered as a Title IX sport so I would assume USA CHEER "stunt' athletes are not co-ed and therefore coed teams are currently not competing in their format either. Are the teams competing in "stunt" cheerleading teams or stunt teams? Cannot be both in the same defined season by OCR standards. NCAA standards and compliance is different. However, I don't know if any recruited, scholarshipped athletes playing D1 Basketball for example would be found playing on the intramural or club team while in their season. Academics, injuries, and overall well-being are overseen by athletic departments. The NCATA teams all receive the benefit of sport (scholarships, travel, travel meals, apparel, dedicated practice time and space, equipment managers, gear laundry services, academic support, trainers, strength and conditioning staff, sports information directors, a dedicated budget etc) but also must also adhere to the requirements as set forth by the NCAA compliance rules. In fact many (the larger percentage) of current NCATA recruited athletes proudly speak of their training from their allstar gyms. What an amazing accomplishment for allstar coaches, gym owners and current and future athletes. It is incredible to see the NCATA Universities provide a true opportunity. I am sure all parents will embrace this!

 

[Ashley]

Stunt is being offered as a Title IX sport so I would assume USA CHEER "stunt' athletes are not co-ed and therefore coed teams are currently not competing in their format either. Are the teams competing in "stunt" cheerleading teams or stunt teams? Cannot be both in the same defined season by OCR standards. NCAA standards and compliance is different. However, I don't know if any recruited, scholarshipped athletes playing D1 Basketball for example would be found playing on the intramural or club team while in their season. Academics, injuries, and overall well-being are overseen by athletic departments. The NCATA teams all receive the benefit of sport (scholarships, travel, travel meals, apparel, dedicated practice time and space, equipment managers, gear laundry services, academic support, trainers, strength and conditioning staff, sports information directors, a dedicated budget etc) but also must also adhere to the requirements as set forth by the NCAA compliance rules. In fact many (the larger percentage) of current NCATA recruited athletes proudly speak of their training from their allstar gyms. What an amazing accomplishment for allstar coaches, gym owners and current and future athletes. It is incredible to see the NCATA Universities provide a true opportunity. I am sure all parents will embrace this!

Title IX eligibility is on a per school basis though. Like Maryland was a sport at their school and didn't cheer at games, but still competed (not anymore) at NCA Nationals against teams that also cheered sideline. I don't know what OCR is, but I don't think that every Stunt team has to be recognized as a sport at their school - I think Stunt just offers a format that makes it easier to be recognized for teams that want to be. I know Louisville competed in the Stunt meet today and I would find it extremely hard to believe that any of their teams now don't cheer at games - though with 3 cheer teams, I suppose it's possible. Should Stunt be recognized by NCAA, then yes, you're right, they won't be able to cheer at games, but it's still a ways away from that.

As things stand now, Varsity is still heavily involved in USA Cheer I believe. And it's not in Varsity's best interests for Stunt to be a valid NCAA sport - nationals won't be able to be held at NCA Nationals and teams won't be able to go to camp. Schools can still recognize Stunt as a sport for Title IX purposes (I think) without it having to be NCAA sanctioned. NCATA is clearly headed for that approach though.

 

[cheerforeverever]

Stunt is being offered as a Title IX sport so I would assume USA CHEER "stunt' athletes are not co-ed and therefore coed teams are currently not competing in their format either. Are the teams competing in "stunt" cheerleading teams or stunt teams?

Correct, both formats are solely all girl. As for if the teams in stunt are sideline teams or strictly stunt teams its a mix of sideline cheer programs that also compete as well as teams from universities that are strictly competitive university organizations.

 

[MissBee]

I don't know what OCR is,

Office for Civil Rights

 

[hiyoe6]

Refering to the question abuot why Azusa Pacific can participate in NCATA if its NCAA related. My understanding is Azusa Pacific is transitioning from a NAIA school to an NCAA school. So they want some of their teams competing in NCAA for that reason. I think they'll be fully transitioned by 2012? (I could have just made that up but I think thats what I remember hearing.)

 

[tntdynomite]

Refering to the question abuot why Azusa Pacific can participate in NCATA if its NCAA related. My understanding is Azusa Pacific is transitioning from a NAIA school to an NCAA school. So they want some of their teams competing in NCAA for that reason. I think they'll be fully transitioned by 2012? (I could have just made that up but I think thats what I remember hearing.)

Thanks for the info, that makes sense now. I coach at a NAIA school and I know our teams play NCAA schools occasionally, but their entire roster is not made up of NCAA schools, like Azusa's NCATA team has to, which was why I was questioning it.

 

[tntdynomite]

Stunt is being offered as a Title IX sport so I would assume USA CHEER "stunt' athletes are not co-ed and therefore coed teams are currently not competing in their format either. Are the teams competing in "stunt" cheerleading teams or stunt teams? Cannot be both in the same defined season by OCR standards.

Exactly why Stunt teams don't make sense to me. This is supposed to be USA Cheer's attempt at making cheer into a sport that is recognized under Title IX, and yet they are still violating one of the major components of why teams that do sideline and compete are not considered sports. Eventually Stunt teams will have to stop doing sideline for Title IX compliance, so why the delay?

 

[tntdynomite]

As far as the NAIA, I believe they still have to abide by the same rules and regulations set by the NCAA as do all DI,II,III A and Juco's and I don't think NCATA or Stunt have enough schools participating yet to split into different divisions

NAIA does not have to abide by NCAA rules. They are completely separate entities. To me the major difference is that NAIA is for smaller universities and unlike NCAA does not have to offer a specific number of sports. So if a university just started athletics and wanted to offer only mens and womens basketball, NAIA would be a better fit. If that university wanted to transition to a NCAA school eventually, there are steps that they could take in order to do so. And there are some schools that choose to transition from NCAA to NAIA. Which athletic association is a better fit really depends on the needs of the school. Both NCAA and NAIA have to abide by Title IX rules, obviously.

 

[travnation80]

The stunt website http://www.usacheer.net/Content.aspx/News/USA CHEER ANNOUNCES AN NCAA EMERGING SPORT INITIATIVE

Everything sounds great and all, but when you leave a big part out of cheerleading it doesn't make sense. The guys, this is just out of control and now people think that college cheerleading is dying and Universities Athletics Departments are not valuing their cheerleaders. Yes your AD can say your a sport and fund you and they dont need the NCAA to do anything most schools that do this make a statement that they value their cheerleaders with no baring on how much money it takes. The sad part is their are plenty of AD's that dont do this and they have much more money than the other schools who do allow their cheerleaders funding and sports status. The USA CHEER STUNT stuff just makes my head hurt, its like CHEERLEADING is conforming to a committee of folks (NCAA and others) who had nothing to do with cheerleading and don't know anything about it. Calling these lil competitions a "game" and their are rankings thru the season and such. It makes no sense cheerleading is not like basketball, football, baseball, volleyball etc. No one says they are goin to a "TENNIS GAME" no you say your going to a Tennis Match. No one is going to a "Gymnastics Game" or a "Track Game". So why are we conforming? Leaving boys out of cheerleading (when cheerleading was founded by a male sad story) and guess what their is no granting situation that the NCAA even wants to pick it up. What if they don't and we are stuck like this due to our own accord for years? I mean look at Alabama the Athetics Department wont even buy them rings nor allow them to use the University A and that's just a slap in the face and everyone knows they have the money, the football program in 2009 Net gain was 24 million dollars plus and you mean to tell me u can't spend 10,000 (give or take) on some Rings? These AD's dont value the cheerleaders, OSU, UK, Louisville, Morehead State, Texas Tech, Hawaii Pacific are just a few of the Universities who's Athletics Department and Top University officials value the efforts of their cheerleaders and put the money where their mouth is. So when you discuss use these schools a models because clearly their universities really care.

 

[cheerforeverever]

The reason why both are all female is to be able to qualify for a female sport under title IX and possibly in the future be considered a sport...... While no one is going to wave a magic wand and have NCAA declare cheerleading a sport in the next 1-2 years, I think that both NCATA and Stunt have taken a step in the right direction so that in 20-30 years parts of cheerleading can evolve into a regulated sport rather than just an athletic activity. NCATA is a little faster in the evolution as their teams are already considered sports at their universities and they do not crowd lead, but Stunt will pick up the rest of the nation's universities that aren't ready for quite so much change. Eventually in another 10 years I believe NCATA and stunt will be one in the same basically......Its going to take time for everyone to compromise on score sheets and formats and whatever, but overall we have to start somewhere. Just eveyone keep in mind that it is a small portion of universities that actually support their cheer programs as part of athletics. Most are unaware of what we even do, so expecting people to change their minds instantly is not going to happen. That's why its good to have two versions.....universities can choose which one is best for them at this time and eventually it will be close to a level playing field between the two.

 

[coachrah]

Exactly why Stunt teams don't make sense to me. This is supposed to be USA Cheer's attempt at making cheer into a sport that is recognized under Title IX, and yet they are still violating one of the major components of why teams that do sideline and compete are not considered sports. Eventually Stunt teams will have to stop doing sideline for Title IX compliance, so why the delay?

USA Cheer is looking to show interest in their format for emerging sports status to the NCAA. It is their attempt to be the NGB. The NCATA membered institutions of the NCAA already have signed letters of intent by their University presidents. NCATA is supported and conducted as inter-collegiate sport the same as any true sport on campus and already providing the opportunity to females. The NCATA athletes are not pulling now"triple duty" and never have... even prior to the unrolling of their format (now in their second season). Probably most applaudable, is that even in the face of the Court ruling this summer, all of these Universities remain committed to providing opportunities for females in these skill sets. Simply stated, the NCATA NCAA institution schools administration believed in these skill sets as sport. They believed and are rewarding athletes training in gymnastics, highschool cheer and allstars. They did not view it as entertainment. Parents have reached deep into their pockets for their children to participate in this sport, especially in competition fees (not entertainment fees) and tumbling training. Allstar coaches have created amazing athletes who are now receiving scholarships and being treated the same as a basketball, baseball or hockey player on their campus. These athletes profiles are under sport teams on their Universities websites and it is refreshing to see how many come from All Star gyms.

Could not help but to notice the thread on Alabama and their rings. Unfortunately, many Universities athletic directors were awaiting this ruling. We all know what those kids did was amazing in regards to their skill sets, however, Mr. Webb's testimony was not fully picked up by the media, especially in regards to both NCA and UCA College Nationals. He absolutely diminished the importance of athletic ability... referring to it as mainly crowd leading with some dance and acrobatics. This is confusing, as two years ago college coaches received a mass e-mail stating that if we participated in another National with a collegiate division, we could not participate at NCA if we were named as a National Champion at another event. The logic was that a Varsity Brands Nationals was the true prestigious National. I think the athletes/coaches interpret prestige as the hardcore skills they hone to win not the use of their megaphones. The NCA scoresheet (last time I checked) had 11 points for crowd response and was prior (and separate) to the 2.5 minute routine. Teams in the 2.5 routine at NCA, certainly are not leading a crowd. If practicing for NCA College Nationals was about crowd leading, we had 3 too many practices a week.

 

[cheerforeverever]

coachrah are you from NCATA/Usag or involved with them? You seem very pro-NCATA and very anti-Varsity/Stunt. I can respect your opinions, but it would make a lot of sense to me if you were lol. Not to say that i'm not slightly biased either by my university...

 

[coachrah]

coachrah are you from NCATA/Usag or involved with them? You seem very pro-NCATA and very anti-Varsity/Stunt. I can respect your opinions, but it would make a lot of sense to me if you were lol. Not to say that i'm not slightly biased either by my university...

I am pro-opportunity for both males and females in sport. I am anti- untruthful anything