All-Star Number Of Crossovers/stacking Teams

[gymcatmomx2]

Same with us... I paid all extra fees for her to cross over .. It's definitely hitting me hard on the pockets! Lol

Oh my. The coach asked me if my daughter could crossover and after much discussion with my husband we agreed to allow it. If I had to pay extra for her to be on two teams I would have declined the request. I am already paying all-star fees for both my daughters not to mention the fees I am paying for my oldest to be on her freshman squad.

 

[SharkDad]

This thread reminds me that we should all respect other coaches' and gym owners' decisions and not judge them unless we ask them why they did made a decision. You just never know.

On a side note, hearing that small gyms are turning away athletes to stay small makes me wish that division didn't exist

 

[TheVipersMom]

Oh my. The coach asked me if my daughter could crossover and after much discussion with my husband we agreed to allow it. If I had to pay extra for her to be on two teams I would have declined the request. I am already paying all-star fees for both my daughters not to mention the fees I am paying for my oldest to be on her freshman squad.

I had to buy 2 uniforms, 2 shoes, and pay the monthly fee for her to be on the higher team. I also had to pay for 2 music and choreo. I did get a break on coaches fees I think but that's about it. It's ok we were happy to do it even if that means doubling up on what is paid. My daughter loves being on youth and I couldn't take that away from her. I would never complain because we go to practice at least 30 mins early because my daughter wants to tumble and warm up and there are always coaches there willing to spot her and help her even though we aren't paying for extra classes or privates. So even though it seems like a lot but when I think of it in a big picture like what is my cp getting for all these payments it really is worth it.
Then again if I had more then one kid doing it like you it would be a different story lol

 

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

We require our "permanent" crossovers to pay their extra fees. If we ask someone to fill in for an injury they do not come out of pocket only bc it's already been paid by the injured athlete.

Yes. Since my daughter was pulled to an additional team to replace a girl who left, I had to cough up all of the remaining crossover fees for competitions (3 nationals and 3 one-days). At our gym crossovers who start from the beginning of the season also pay double music/choreo fees, practice apparel, camp fees, etc. Plus an extra $10 per month tuition.

 

[icecheermom]

In my opinion, if you are mini or youth age there is NO reason to be on a senior team. I hate seeing little eight year olds flying in a senior team getting based my seventeen year olds. That's ridiculous!!

I totally understand where you're coming from because this bothers me so much. We have these 8 year old twins in our gym that are extremely talented. They have layout, jumps to tucks, and fulls. We have 4 teams...Mini 1, Youth 2 (currently on), Senior 3, and Senior Restricted 5. The mom really doesn't want them on a Youth 2 next year because they're so advanced. We're from a small town and no other gyms offer a Youth 4 or Youth 5...where do you think they belong? I think they're too small for the Senior 3 but what should she do? I'm hoping maybe we could do a Junior 3 or 4 next year and it would be okay. Just curious what people think is a good fit for them since they're so young and VERY little...

 

[xoxbeastbackspotxox]

Yes your reason sounds acceptable. However there would be those that would suggest that the S2 should of just gone with the less girls option than allow you to crossover. The issue is that there are so many acceptable possibilities that they do not want to pass a rule because of the unacceptable ones. It seems that the ones that are the most unacceptable to the majority:

- crossing over and down more than one level ie level 5 to 3, or level 4 to 2
- crossing over and taking "positions away from the kids who have been working at them all year. ie a level 5 flyer crossing to level 2 and being made point flyer for a major competition
- crossing over to change divisions from, a stronger division to a weaker division or from all girl to coed - basically avoiding competition
- crossing over to "stack" teams - (4 or more crossovers IMO) This is usually when they are not on the team in the first place and are only crossover for a certain competition.
-crossing over athletes from higher level to lower level when a gym already has enough athletes to make good teams.
-crossing over because of the perceived quality of the competition ie we are going against WC, Stingrays, SOT, etc at our next competition and we need our best athletes on one team to try to win this division. (Rarely works btw)

Most other crossover reasons (illness, injury, people quitting, cross training an athlete to get their skills on equal levels, just a fun team) the majority understand.

That I understand.

 

[kristenthegreat]

I think crossing within a level can be a good thing. Youth 5 kid to double on a junior 5 but get to practice two different spots (base vs flyer vs backspot)..I know CEA has talked extensively on its use of crossovers, which works for them. I always did better when I played up in sports (and thus with older, more experienced girls), but I enjoyed having a team where I could shine (which happened when I played with girls my age or younger)..

However, I get injuries happen. I get people quit and you need someone to beef up the team a wee bit. That being said, when more than half the team is crossovers, and for no other reason than to win, yeah I think that's a problem. I think the general consensus is that what essentially amounts to sandbagging is wrong. There are some reasons why crossovers are used, I can understand. Some kids just wanna be on as many teams as possible.

 

[tumbleyoda]

I think crossing within a level can be a good thing. Youth 5 kid to double on a junior 5 but get to practice two different spots (base vs flyer vs backspot)..I know CEA has talked extensively on its use of crossovers, which works for them. I always did better when I played up in sports (and thus with older, more experienced girls), but I enjoyed having a team where I could shine (which happened when I played with girls my age or younger)..

However, I get injuries happen. I get people quit and you need someone to beef up the team a wee bit. That being said, when more than half the team is crossovers, and for no other reason than to win, yeah I think that's a problem. I think the general consensus is that what essentially amounts to sandbagging is wrong. There are some reasons why crossovers are used, I can understand. Some kids just wanna be on as many teams as possible.

I agree. But what is declared sandbagging for one team/program is called playing within the framework of the rules for another. That is equally as frustrating.

 

[Level5Mom]

When Hailey crossed last year (the whole year) we paid absolutely nothing extra during the season. But they rarely have crossovers. I can imagine a gym with a lot of crossovers not being able to eat that extra cost for long. I would not have agreed to it if I had to pay for it.

When Spice ended up with a paid bid I did have to fork over the amount that the bid didn't cover, but I was happy to do that!

 

[ztaprincess]

No, no, no... there are Minis that are on our Youth team and we have Youth girls that are on our Senior teams. One of the girls that is on our Youth team and our Senior team is my CP who turned 12 last month. She is the oldest on the Youth team. All of the girls that are on our Youth that crossover to our Seniors are in 6th grade. Sorry if I didn't explain myself well.

I guess I still do not think that a youth age athlete should be on a senior team. I get that they are 12 and at the top of the age range for youth, but I think that the USASF needs to make them not overlap. To that point. I can see a Youth age athlete on a junior team, but not on a senior team. That was really the point of my reply but I did read it as mini on senior team so it made me think of it.

 

[SkyBlue]

You stated that "it seems silly that a team has to get left out of NCA because the team is over the limit on cross overs".... it's my understanding that at NCA Nationals there can be no crossovers. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

This is the official rule for Dallas as to cross overs.
The issue with your level 2 team not being able to compete is because they are all from different levels and you have more than 5, which goes against their cross over policy!
Crossovers at NCA ALL-STAR NATIONALS WILL BE
ALLOWED given the following restrictions:
1. Participant may only crossover into a division within the same USASF Level.
(ex: Level 3 Jr Coed and Level 3 Small Senior).
2. Participant may only represent up to a maximum of two teams.
3. Participant may only represent on gym.
4. A maximum of fi ve crossover participants is allowed per team.
5. Crossover participants must pay an additional commuter registration fee in full
to perfrom on the second team.

 

[12stepCheermom]

This is the official rule for Dallas as to cross overs.
The issue with your level 2 team not being able to compete is because they are all from different levels and you have more than 5, which goes against their cross over policy!
Crossovers at NCA ALL-STAR NATIONALS WILL BE
ALLOWED given the following restrictions:
1. Participant may only crossover into a division within the same USASF Level.
(ex: Level 3 Jr Coed and Level 3 Small Senior).
2. Participant may only represent up to a maximum of two teams.
3. Participant may only represent on gym.
4. A maximum of fi ve crossover participants is allowed per team.
5. Crossover participants must pay an additional commuter registration fee in full
to perfrom on the second team.

I love this whole thing. I wish it were industry standard. My son's team last year (lrg jr 2) competed for best of level 2 against a team that we run into a bit that had the same group of guys on their level 2, 3 ,4 AND 5. Seriously, their rebound out of their handspring was about 24 inches off the mat. It's not like you didn't know that they all had fulls, but they competed on a senior level 2 team.

Needless to say, they won best of level. But where's the joy in that?

What I can't figure out is why someone with mad spinning skills would be remotely interested in competing on a level 2 team? My daughter was an emergency fill in for an injury on a senior level 2 this year (she's a jr 4) and I was more stressed about that performance than her own, I just kept chanting...."PLEASE remember to pause between the double toe and the back handspring, PLEASE remember to pause between the double toe and the backhandspring...."

She remembered. Whew!!!

 

[mom24girls]

I think when you go to competitions and watch teams it's pretty clear who is abusing the crossover situation and who isn't. Our gym is a second year gym with a little over a hundred kids. After tryouts there were only about 3 crossovers. These girls were crossed over to benefit them, not the team. Their correct level team was made up of really tiny girls and these girls who were normally flyers wouldn't be able to fly on those teams so they were crossed to other teams so they could keep their flying skills. None of them were crossed up or down more than one level. Now that it's later in the season we have had girls quit here and there and injuries so we have had crossovers in order not to have to rework a routine. For these the girls have all been crossed up from lower levels though not down. Sometimes the girl chosen to cross is someone who had gotten the higher level skills right after tryouts and others still don't have the skills for the higher level tumbling wise but have other benefits to offer. So we are not stacking, actually more the opposite. I have seen a few teams at competions that perform beautifully but then you see the same girl front and center on 3 or more teams. Heck at least put her in a different position each team so it's not so obvious. Of course they always take first so it doesn't hurt them any.

 

[mom24girls]

I think they should allow crossovers but regulate it. I like the idea of a kid registering a level each season and not being able to cross over more than one level up or down and setting a max number of crossovers per team. I think that would help a lot.