All-Star Olympics Just Granted Cheer Provisional Staus

[Ashley]

Look at that statement solely from a business point of view. If A & T had received sport recognition, could it have been a valid threat to Varsity? I'm not a callous person, I do feel for those that lose in business. With that said, there was a lot of thought and risk entering the arena with a corporation that has been around 40+ years with the slogan "We Are Cheerleading", and let's be realistic, "creating" an event which is essentially cheer minus the dance and jump portion. What is clear to me, is that Varsity is carefully managing the "sport" status which I personally feel is extremely wise.

Yeah, I meant to amend my post to say that from a Business POV I can see why that would be something to celebrate.

 

[dat.jpp]

To be honest, there should just be a seperate cheerleading federation for the olympics that isn't part of young champions, pop warner, school, allstar, etc. Most likely, I'd only like to see ICU but then again, are there gonna be qualifers per country? How would that work since theres only 4 cheer divisions in the ICU? (coed premier, coed elite, allgirl premier, allgirl elite?) Would there be new "allstar styled" gyms in the same country running in this new federation?

 

[iinaa]

To be honest, there should just be a seperate cheerleading federation for the olympics that isn't part of young champions, pop warner, school, allstar, etc. Most likely, I'd only like to see ICU but then again, are there gonna be qualifers per country? How would that work since theres only 4 cheer divisions in the ICU? (coed premier, coed elite, allgirl premier, allgirl elite?) Would there be new "allstar styled" gyms in the same country running in this new federation?

In the olympics the number of olympic events is limited, for example in Swimming WC there are more events than in the Olympics. I highly doupt that level 5 cheer will be showcased in the Olympics, it will be level 6 (the highest level which makes sense). In ICU USA competes only in level 6 and after Canada took 4-5 victories straight, they were also asked to compete in premier (level 6 division). Furthermore, I believe ICU even emphasises that Elite (level 5) is more for countries who are not that far yet (does not apply for some countries like Mexico, England, New Zealand where level 5 is more common) and level 6 more advanced level because of the 2 high pyramids and flipping baskets.

 

[XtremeWpg]

In the olympics the number of olympic events is limited, for example in Swimming WC there are more events than in the Olympics. I highly doupt that level 5 cheer will be showcased in the Olympics, it will be level 6 (the highest level which makes sense). In ICU USA competes only in level 6 and after Canada took 4-5 victories straight, they were also asked to compete in premier (level 6 division). Furthermore, I believe ICU even emphasises that Elite (level 5) is more for countries who are not that far yet (does not apply for some countries like Mexico, England, New Zealand where level 5 is more common) and level 6 more advanced level because of the 2 high pyramids and flipping baskets.

I don't believe Canada was asked to compete at level 6. Canada had sent 4 teams (2 elite and 2 premiere) for several years. I think ICU made a rule that said countries had to choose one or the other and Canada chose premier.

 

[youbetterwork]

What's different about that than ICU though? Paid bids rarely go to open teams, and certainly not level 6 teams. You still have college kids trying to raise money to go to USASF Worlds, just like you do for ICU. Those open teams also don't go to as many bid competitions as the senior teams because they can't afford to. Many only go to one event, just like your teams do. ICU is still more expensive for non-us teams than it is for Team USA, but you just said that USA doesn't dominate. So what's different? The International divisions at Worlds are there to create more of a playing field. You can't compare the senior club divisions to your international teams.

It's not fair money-wise because when it's always in the same location, international teams have to fund a lot more every year.

ICU is more fair representation-wise because it's one team per country. A lot of countries can only send 2 teams per country for each division at USASF/IASF Worlds. The US doesn't have a limitation for number of teams for each division, except for the number of bids that are given out (but it's hundreds).

If it's a World Championship, all divisions should be international. My senior 5 team is ages 12-16, but we can't compete in small/medium senior because we're not allowed to.

 

[Ashley]

It's not fair money-wise because when it's always in the same location, international teams have to fund a lot more every year.

ICU is more fair representation-wise because it's one team per country. A lot of countries can only send 2 teams per country for each division at USASF/IASF Worlds. The US doesn't have a limitation for number of teams for each division, except for the number of bids that are given out (but it's hundreds).

If it's a World Championship, all divisions should be international. My senior 5 team is ages 12-16, but we can't compete in small/medium senior because we're not allowed to.

But then ICU isn't fair money wise either. You basically just argued that IASF isn't fair moneywise, but ICU is. That doesn't make sense. We only really talk about the club divisions who get paid here, but there are plenty of US athletes on international teams with an AL bid who are broke college students with Go Fund Mes to get them to Worlds too.

Other countries don't have a limit on the number of teams in each division either and finals are limited to 3 per country, so it's not all that different. US Trials brings the number of US teams down to 10 before they even start competing against international teams - and you're not even really competing against teams from other countries in semi-finals. You're competing against your own country for spots in finals. By the time you're even actually competing against teams from other countries, it's at most 3 per country.

If you fit the age group, you absolutely can compete in small senior. International teams aren't excluded from the club divisions, they just usually don't follow the age groups to compete in that one. I have seen Canadian and Mexican teams in the senior club divisions. If Sweden doesn't let your small senior compete in the club division that's on them, not USASF/IASF.

(FWIW, I'm not arguing that USASF/IASF is fair to non-US teams, I'm just arguing against some of the points you made about why ICU is)

 

[dat.jpp]

It's not fair money-wise because when it's always in the same location, international teams have to fund a lot more every year.

ICU is more fair representation-wise because it's one team per country. A lot of countries can only send 2 teams per country for each division at USASF/IASF Worlds. The US doesn't have a limitation for number of teams for each division, except for the number of bids that are given out (but it's hundreds).

If it's a World Championship, all divisions should be international. My senior 5 team is ages 12-16, but we can't compete in small/medium senior because we're not allowed to.

In my opinion, I'd like to see Open/Open coed 4 compete at worlds too but I know this will probably NEVER happend.

 

[purplecheer]

In my opinion, I'd like to see Open/Open coed 4 compete at worlds too but I know this will probably NEVER happend.

I can understand that some open 4 athletes won't make it to level 5, but then you would have to take Senior 4, Junior 4 and Youth 4 too to be fair. It wouldn't be the elite levels anymore. If there isn't Junior 5, why should we let in a team with level 4 skills over level 5 skills? Plus, Worlds is already overcrowded enough as it is.

 

[NJ Coach]

In my opinion, I'd like to see Open/Open coed 4 compete at worlds too but I know this will probably NEVER happend.

I hope that never happens. Worlds is for the elite levels.

 

[MissCongeniality]

I hope that never happens. Worlds is for the elite levels.

AND you can't sandbag a level 5 routine the way so many do with other levels.

 

[youbetterwork]

But then ICU isn't fair money wise either. You basically just argued that IASF isn't fair moneywise, but ICU is. That doesn't make sense. We only really talk about the club divisions who get paid here, but there are plenty of US athletes on international teams with an AL bid who are broke college students with Go Fund Mes to get them to Worlds too.

Other countries don't have a limit on the number of teams in each division either and finals are limited to 3 per country, so it's not all that different. US Trials brings the number of US teams down to 10 before they even start competing against international teams - and you're not even really competing against teams from other countries in semi-finals. You're competing against your own country for spots in finals. By the time you're even actually competing against teams from other countries, it's at most 3 per country.

If you fit the age group, you absolutely can compete in small senior. International teams aren't excluded from the club divisions, they just usually don't follow the age groups to compete in that one. I have seen Canadian and Mexican teams in the senior club divisions. If Sweden doesn't let your small senior compete in the club division that's on them, not USASF/IASF.

(FWIW, I'm not arguing that USASF/IASF is fair to non-US teams, I'm just arguing against some of the points you made about why ICU is)

It makes sense in my head, lol. ICU = no bids. Worlds = AL, PP and paid bids for US teams, AL bids for most international countries.

I understand that there are American teams that go on AL bids, but you still have the chance to go after a paid or partial paid bid, so I don't see how that's the same as us who only have AL bids. Even if a Swedish team got a paid bid at NCA, we can't use it because we can only use the bids that IASF has given our country. The limitations from IASF are different for different countries/federations. Same with competing in small/medium senior - some countries are allowed to, some are not. For my country, IASF haven't given us any bids for it - therefore we cannot compete in it.

You can't compare to Canada because their cheer industry is more like the US than other international teams. They have senior divisions (I believe?) and doesn't only have AL bids. Not sure about Mexico.

And btw, I think they should remove the 3 per country rule. More prestige in getting into finals for international teams (which some international teams will!).

 

[KPep]

You can't compare to Canada because their cheer industry is more like the US than other international teams. They have senior divisions (I believe?) and doesn't only have AL bids.

Correct and correct. But we mostly compete in the international divisions and we mostly have AL bids.

 

[Ashley]

It makes sense in my head, lol. ICU = no bids. Worlds = AL, PP and paid bids for US teams, AL bids for most international countries.

I understand that there are American teams that go on AL bids, but you still have the chance to go after a paid or partial paid bid, so I don't see how that's the same as us who only have AL bids. Even if a Swedish team got a paid bid at NCA, we can't use it because we can only use the bids that IASF has given our country. The limitations from IASF are different for different countries/federations. Same with competing in small/medium senior - some countries are allowed to, some are not. For my country, IASF haven't given us any bids for it - therefore we cannot compete in it.

You can't compare to Canada because their cheer industry is more like the US than other international teams. They have senior divisions (I believe?) and doesn't only have AL bids. Not sure about Mexico.

And btw, I think they should remove the 3 per country rule. More prestige in getting into finals for international teams (which some international teams will!).

That's actually not completely true. Many EPs don't give paid bids to open teams, especially level 6. The ability to get paid or partial paid (which isn't even a thing in the US anymore) is extremely limited for them. NCA, for example, will give paid bids to I5 teams, but not I6. As far as I know, my coed 6 team is not eligible for money at any of the events we'll be competing at this season.

 

[Ashley]

Correct and correct. But we mostly compete in the international divisions and we mostly have AL bids.

You guys don't have Full Paid bids, but Cheer for the Cure gave out PP bids in the same ration we give out FP bids. One Paid bid for every 2 At Large:

Cheer For the Cure (CAN)

 

[DancerDude0118]

That's actually not completely true. Many EPs don't give paid bids to open teams, especially level 6. The ability to get paid or partial paid (which isn't even a thing in the US anymore) is extremely limited for them. NCA, for example, will give paid bids to I5 teams, but not I6. As far as I know, my coed 6 team is not eligible for money at any of the events we'll be competing at this season.

Sorry if you've answered this before, but do you happen to know why this is the case? It's a little sad to see so many IOC 6 teams not eligible for a full-paid bid even though their scores are up there with the rest of level 5.