On Worlds 2020

Discussion in 'Allstar Cheerleading' started by TheLastPass, Apr 26, 2020.

  1. Sterling von Shimmer

    Sterling von Shimmer Best Flyer.. on a parent team

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    I feel like maybe Worlds being cancelled was a blessing in disguise for CSP since I don’t think SE was destined to win this year. Their routine favored streamlined, clean choreo in favor of difficulty which is great if they could hit both days, but they couldn’t. They finally did it at NCA, but even then there was a very VERY near-miss in the circle part. You could argue that was a testament to their focus — they pull it together when it REALLY counts — but I think it’s more likely it was just luck that they didn’t have a bobble on day 2, and you can’t count on luck six weeks before Worlds.

    And if they lost again this year, I really think a lot of their stronger athletes would’ve jumped ship. The emotional exhaustion of just barely losing Worlds year after year would have taken its toll. And those girls would be looking around and realising that the common denominator is her.

    It really breaks my heart since I love their routines. I don’t know where the disconnect is. I think it’s partly lack of training because those girls are obviously strong enough to learn double ups, etc... and yet they aren’t. And I think it’s also a slightly outdated choreo style. She keeps harkening back to the 2010-2014 years when they dominated with innovative choreo that traded on clean lines (read: lots of stretches). And I get the reasoning behind that. But I think she’s forgetting the talent level back then wasn’t as high as it is now. What dominated back then won’t necessarily translate in today’s LAG.

    If it’s tough to watch them be edged out every year, I can’t imagine what it must be like to live it. Hopefully next year something changes. She’s only got two more years to win Worlds with her daughter on SE, which I think is something she really, really wants. And if something doesn’t change, that’s not happening.

     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2020
  2. oncecoolcoachnowmom

    oncecoolcoachnowmom Bestest Newbie '14

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    Interesting side question:

    So these routines were never competed on the Worlds floor. I wonder how that plays into next season.

    Ex: If you're someone who scored well all season, do you pull a Midnight and basically repackage a very similar elite because "ain't broke don't fix it?" (Not criticizing that elite, it is great but they chose to play to their strong suit and keep their elite very similar 19/20.)

    Do you scrap and go for something completely different?

    Ex: If Orange, you keeping that inversion and putting it back in for 20/21?

    If you're SE, you playing safe again with recycled switch up/paper doll/full around for a third season? Do you innovate and add in double ups?

    I'm sure people ask that every year but we've never had routines competed all season but never see Worlds or Summit. Or upgrades in process that no one ever actually saw. Wondering how that will affect 20/21 choreo.
     
  3. Sterling von Shimmer

    Sterling von Shimmer Best Flyer.. on a parent team

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    I’ve been assuming we’ll see some recycled choreo from this year to the next. I’m okay with it. There’s no deduction for reusing your choreo from the previous year.

    Orange will keep that inversion since it’s been working for them points-wise, and hopefully after two years of practicing it it’ll have a better rate of hitting.

    BSB will keep their elite section. They’d be stupid not to. Maybe amped up a touch — like adding a stretch after the full up tick — but we will be seeing that again next year. I am for it.

    I’m betting 00 will keep that wall pyramid thing.

    SE will keep the crowd-pleaser pyramid, and mostly likely the ball-ups because I’d imagine CSP would love to see her daughter win Worlds with the skill that made them famous. And obviously the high/high stretches and the paper dolls since she seems to like those. And probably the featured flyer bit for that particular athlete which I’ve always felt served two purposes:

    1. It’s a way for CSP to say, “I know in my heart this girl should be center, but look I gave her a solo role that highlights her strengths so everyone can just chill with the nepotism BS.”

    2. It utilizes that flyer really well since she really doesn’t really fly outside of the elites, but still has a lot to offer. Also placates the fan base.

    So yeah, I don’t think next year will be the year for next-level innovation. But I’m okay with it.
     
  4. UCFKnights07

    UCFKnights07 Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    For the life of me i cant remember what team it was maybe cali black ops coach.., but i remember seeing a coach on twitter make a comment about how they had made upgrades for worlds and since they cant use them, they plan on keeping them for next season, since no ones seen it yet.
     
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  5. Keep_Believing

    Keep_Believing Moderator

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    I have wondered that about NCA College Cheer teams. They weren't able to compete their routines at Daytona.
     
  6. cheerbowgirl101

    cheerbowgirl101 Cheer Stalker

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    I don’t always agree with CSP’s decisions both as a program runner and as coach. I am not her biggest fan nor her #1 hater. She is just another big name coach to me. But I do ultimately pity her just a little bit. I can’t imagine that it’s easy to have such a high profile athlete- just ONE athlete like that on a team.
    It wasn’t never JUST Gabi Butler on SMOED, for example. She was a star, yes, but that entire team was legendary. We remember many names from that team, even though she’s the one who went on to be in the spotlight. The modern day SE love is so blatantly fueled by love for that one athlete, it must be hard for CSP to look at her team and realize that she has to cater to this specific fan base- not the Senior Elite fanbase- but the RC fanbase. It’s got to be a hard thing to do as a coach; if she doesn’t she’s facing(and has faced) cries and complaints of nepotism, bad coaching, poor choices. RC is a great athlete, and she definitely is not undeserving of the attention she receives, so this is not to say that at all. This is to say that she has become THE face of the team. So CSP has little choice to not highlight her in this day and age of social media. Agreed with your point that she needs to use her in the elite or else she can’t really showcase that talent. RC is the most flexible flyer on SE, and she does elites extremely well. But she herself has said she doesn’t do baskets and doesn’t need flip in pyramids bc of her height. So it is not all CSP being forced. But it’s a big part of it.
     
  7. Sterling von Shimmer

    Sterling von Shimmer Best Flyer.. on a parent team

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    Yeah it’s definitely a unique situation for CSP, but I don’t think it’s RC being on the team that poses the most problems. It’s her daughter.

    RC is a great athlete. She’s one of those kids who would’ve excelled at any sport she chose. And it’s fortunate for CSP that RC is an actually talented cheerleader instead of just a girl who gives great face after her meme went viral. If RC were even just an averagely skilled athlete, then her having a vocal fan base clamoring for her to be seen more could’ve been a detriment. It might’ve led to CSP trying to appease her fans by featuring her with choreo she wasn’t ready for. But RC can pretty much handle anything you throw at her, so featuring her is justified on two levels: it placates her fan base and enhances the routine in general. And no one can say, “Oh RC is only featured because she went viral.” She would’ve been at or near center anyway without any outside influence. I think it’s safe to assume that RC would’ve made a name for herself sooner or later a la Jamie Andries even if she’d never gone viral. People love to watch her.

    So yeah, I don’t think catering to RC’s fan base is a problem because you can justify it on multiple fronts. Having her daughter on the team — and putting her in center — is more problematic.

    I was telling someone else that I think CSP dug a huge whole for herself with that decision. It’s not that she put her kid on the team — people coach their kids all the time — it’s that she put her in center. That’s a BALLSY move. And while her kid is a solid flyer — she’s a great performer and looks comfortable in the air — she just can’t compete with RC working that height and flexibility right next to her. At least not right now, while she’s injured.

    And the kicker is, at this point I don’t think CSP could take her off center if she wanted to. It would probably mean some embarrassment and hurt pride for both her and her kid. Not to mention the slew of bullying it would open up her her daughter to... lots of “lol even your mom thinks you suck.” So she’ll probably double down on that decision until her kid ages out. And while baby Pope is a good enough flyer that she won’t cost them Worlds or anything like that, her being put center over a more deserving athlete still hints at a biased and flawed decision-making process on the part of CSP.

    I feel I should add that I’m all about SE. Their choreo and style parallels my own (read: clean lines with a lower degree of difficulty but a higher chance of winning). Which is why it’s hard to be a fan sometimes. The SE kids are a talented bunch. Anyone can see how they could/should utilized, but the only person who can make it happen can’t/won’t.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2020
  8. Atxmom

    Atxmom They call me Susie

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    Just out of curiosity...how tall is RC? Ive heard comments that she is too tall to be flyer but that could mean anything in allstar. Sorry if I’m not allowed to ask since she’s a minor.
     
  9. Sterling von Shimmer

    Sterling von Shimmer Best Flyer.. on a parent team

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    I also wonder that. Because girl is tall.

    I don’t necessarily think she’s too tall to be a flyer period — obviously she’s great in the air — but she might be more suited to an older coed team sooner rather than later.
     
  10. fierceeflyeer

    fierceeflyeer They call me Susie

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    I'm pretty sure she's around 5'7.
     
  11. JerseyGirl112

    JerseyGirl112 I Fierce Board instead of work/study

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    CSP has a slew of talented flyers on that team. Theres an argument for every single one to be center, not just RC or KP. As a fan, I have a preference and honestly it isn't either of the girls you mentioned. At the end of the day though, her poor daughter cant win. She's put in center and everyone has an opinion, if she's removed from center and everyone will have an opinion. Truthfully, that little girl is fantastic in the air, was there nepotism involved? IMO yes but my opinion doesn't matter.

    Honestly, I think this conversation flames a lot of destructive discourse that is already rampant about CSP's second born on twitter and instagram and that's what I'm trying to get at. We are all fans of the sport and have our opinions, especially about LAG. But there are enough kids online comparing these 15 year olds already. And I want to say that I do agree with everything you said above, that's not where this is coming from. I just feel really bad about what these girls are constantly subjected too online and I have for a while.
     
  12. cheerbowgirl101

    cheerbowgirl101 Cheer Stalker

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    It was not my intention to slander KP or RC, and if it came across that way I’m sorry! It was more just a little bit of discourse about how CSP has to go about handling her very own Jamie Andries in the age of social media. It makes it a bit more difficult to navigate.
     
  13. UCFKnights07

    UCFKnights07 Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    id have to think CSP is more then able to handle the craziness of her daughters and RC after having the likes of Maddie, Erica, and multiple other girls on that team. She does whats best for the team, putting her kids center just to calm cheer twitter is idiotic and she is probably more then aware to bother listening to any of them. I dont see her catering to internet anons, by putting those two girls in certain places. Im sure there are an abundant of reasons why she places the athletes where they are, and i doubt cheer anons are one of those reasons.
    i get that constant bullying on social media, gets to the best of any kids. But they so far have shown as much grace and positivity through it all, and that i would imagine takes a lot mentally.
     
  14. luv2cheer92

    luv2cheer92 Moderator Staff Member Bracket Winner Video Curator

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    Unrelated, but something I realized a couple weeks ago. CA has won a Worlds title every year, except 2005, 2010, and 2015, every 5 years. I was so sure they were gonna break that streak this year, but of course it had to continue.
     
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  15. BlueCat

    BlueCat Roses are red, cats are blue National Champion

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    Even I didn't notice that trend. (EDIT: ... and 2007)