Placements

Discussion in 'Allstar Cheerleading' started by CheerMom192816, Nov 23, 2019.

  1. CheerMom192816

    CheerMom192816 I'm new. Don't Hurt Me

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    Why are parents and athletes not told scores or placements on day 1 of a 2 day comp?

     
  2. Bella's mom

    Bella's mom Last Pass... on International Open 1

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    We’ve always been told our placement and score on a 2 day comp. the coaches receive their scoresheet.


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  3. quitthedrama

    quitthedrama I buy my Insta followers

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    Many EPs are terrible at transparency and most choose not to post division scores which is ridiculous and frustrating, but fortunately there has been a big push to change that. Say what you want about Cheerupdates, but he has had a big positive influence in that. If you are talking about individual gyms, that's a gym issue/choice. Our very first gym 15 years ago didn't like to tell anyone what scores or placements were (because their teams were often at the bottom). The other gyms we have been at always go over the scoresheets with the team.
     
  4. ACEDAD

    ACEDAD Named "Best Veteran" meaning "Most Attractive". National Champion

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    It’s my biggest frustration in the entire sport. I’ve been pushing for increased scoring transparency for years.
     
  5. Bella's mom

    Bella's mom Last Pass... on International Open 1

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    Yes! Even though our coaches have always give us the information, it should be released with all scores for all teams for all to see.


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  6. catlady

    catlady Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    Our gym always shared scores and rankings, as well.

    I'm torn on scores being released by EP's depending on the circumstance. If it is a paid bid comp where the bid divisions can't be judged by the same judge panel, then a review is needed by each arenas top teams in that bid division. There are 18 scored categories on a Varsity score sheet and just a difference of .1 in each category can vary a score by 1.8 and that's not an issue if the bid division is judged by the same panel. It's a huge issue if it's separate judge panels and one panel is averaging higher than the other, unless of course, you don't mind the paid bids always going to the arenas averaging higher scores. I've tallied scores for school comps before and the scores often vary 2-3 points by judge with all the different categories, it's not an exact science. It would be frustrating for Fabulous AS's to get a paid bid in Arena 1 when Much Better AS's deserved it in Arena 2, but their judges weren't scoring quite as generous. Unless parents want some divisions going until midnight, it's just a reality AS will deal with if they want "fair" scoring by bid division.
     
  7. Keep_Believing

    Keep_Believing Moderator

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    All scores should be released just like other sports.
     
  8. CLynn

    CLynn Somewhere... some one.... is giving me a slow clap

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    I hear what you are saying but am not sure how that relates to transparency? Not being snarky just don't know what I am missing...
     
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  9. catlady

    catlady Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    Not being snarky, but....Just because a score is released, doesn't make it transparent. Baseball, basketball, soccer, etc are transparent, you make a goal, you get a specific amount of points. Cheer, dance and ice skating are subjective, it's fact, and the only way you get consistency is with the same panel of judges, and even Olympic ice skating throws out the highest and lowest scores. You can't tell me if level 3 is being judged in two different arena's and Arena 1's top teams are scoring in the 96's while Arena 2's are scoring in the 94's people aren't going to side eye the fact that all bids go to Arena 1. That is the trouble with immediate scoring in multiple arenas with multiple bid divisions and judge panels. Then there's the fact that if they do a review of Arena 1 and 2 top teams to be fair for the sake of bids with one new judge panel, and Arena 2 truly has some teams that deserve to earn bids, then you have people questioning the fact that they scored lower if you have so called immediate "transparent" scoring.

    I'm a person that loves to chart, graph, and analyze numbers every which way, but realized the first year AS scoring varies greatly by arena and competition. Where is the "transparency" or value in having a score if it wasn't judged by the same panel of judges?
     
  10. Keep_Believing

    Keep_Believing Moderator

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    Gymnastics, dance, diving, and ice skating are subjective, yet they still share scores.
     
  11. Sterling von Shimmer

    Sterling von Shimmer Somewhere... some one.... is giving me a slow clap

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    I think people would feel that releasing scores would at least be a step in the right direction. Yeah, you’re still going to have variations in points that reflect the judges’ subjective views, but at least the scores wouldn’t be treated like some dirty secret. Plus (I feel) it holds the judges to a higher standard; if the scores are required to be made public, then suddenly judges/EP’s are required to back them up.
     
  12. Keep_Believing

    Keep_Believing Moderator

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    Yes!
     
  13. CLynn

    CLynn Somewhere... some one.... is giving me a slow clap

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    That's where I net out as well, and guess I wasn't missing anything. We can acknowledge that you probably can't keep all subjectivity out of scoring, and that certainly can feel bad at times, but keeping the scores secret does not make them less subjective.
     
  14. cheermomforever

    cheermomforever Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    Can’t compare cheer and other sports say ....baseball, football, softball etc....because we all know...scoring is not always perfect, judges sometimes are subjective, make mistakes, miss mistakes and sometimes have their own opinion of teams before they even put a foot on the mat. To b involved in cheer u just love the sport and suck up the cost and enjoy the good and take bad that go along with it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
  15. catlady

    catlady Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    I think part of the problem is people look at it as some dirty secret instead of the reality that it is unique that AS is usually judged from multiple arenas, with multiple panels of judges and paid bids would be awarded off of scores from several different panels of judges. I, also, think it's a problem that people think a score of 4.7 in jump technique is somehow "transparent." Does that reflect height, timing, formation, flexed feet, arm placement,....? It means nothing without the judges notes.

    @Keep_Believing gymnastics, dance, sky diving and ice skating are judged by one panel of judges in the same arena. The problem isn't that it is only subjective, it's that it is also in different arenas, with different judges and money is often given away. If people are fine with immediate scoring and paid bids being given to the teams from the arenas where the scores were higher then there's no issue. But, I've already witnessed a comp where a level 1 team had either the 2nd or 3rd highest percent of perfection in all levels from leaked information and they didn't win the paid bid. Why? Because Arena A was more generous with their scoring, they missed a tumble deduction and the Level 1 team in Arena B deserved it over the other team. People were in an uproar because of the "transparent" score that was leaked was higher than the team that won the bid. <<<That's the issue that is unique with AS.