Placements

Discussion in 'Allstar Cheerleading' started by CheerMom192816, Nov 23, 2019.

  1. BlueCat

    BlueCat Roses are red, cats are blue National Champion

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    First off, I would say it only impacts events where multiple panels are judging for the same bid(s).


    I would say the competition results stay the same regardless of what the bid judges say. The only thing at stake is bids.

    They wouldn't need to re-judge all teams, maybe just the top X scoring teams from each panel, where X= the number of bids available for that group. Example: if there are 2 L2 bids and there were 3 different panels working on that level, the top 2 scores from each panel would be bid-judged later. (Those 6 teams that wouldn't necessarily match the top overall 6 scores)
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
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  2. DonnaM

    DonnaM I Fierce Board instead of work/study

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    And, really, I don't know how much rejudging would really be needed except for paid bids, since those are the only ones where money is at stake. Yes, not getting a bid because the junior panel judged harder than the senior panel would be annoying, but at next week's comp, it's likely to be completely different, and over the course of a season, probably evens out.
     
  3. SthrnCheerMom

    SthrnCheerMom I text ACEDAD all the time

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    We were at a comp this weekend. They released Day 1 results as the divisions were over. Then they released final scores after each award session. By the end of the comp, you knew where everyone stood. I was actually surprised they released them before Monday night. But was pleased overall.
     
  4. Bella's mom

    Bella's mom Last Pass... on International Open 1

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    Which comp were you at?


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  5. ACEDAD

    ACEDAD Named "Best Veteran" meaning "Most Attractive". National Champion

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    I will never understand how anyone would be okay with scores being kept from the public.
     
  6. SthrnCheerMom

    SthrnCheerMom I text ACEDAD all the time

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    Double Down. They released them on their Facebook event.
     
  7. catlady

    catlady Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    Someone in this thread said "two wrongs don't make a right," I agree. Provide the notes or some type of commentary with that score. Educate us on what the judges saw and are looking for in the future. Make an actual difference instead of throwing out a random number and pretending it's making some huge difference in the integrity of the sport. I don't understand how people think a random number is any better than providing a ranking. A 98.4 at one comp could be a 96.2 at the next, and not a soul could tell you why, that's not transparency.
     
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  8. tojofasho

    tojofasho I'm an announcer on CBS for Worlds (or should be)

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    The back and forth here is interesting to see, but I think what it boils down to is gymnastics, ice skating, etc. all release their scores and cheer should do the same. I understand there are different panels, I understand there will be different judges, but heck, sometimes you'll have insanely different judging styles on the same panel impacting scores as well (I believe somebody said ice skating drops the highest and lowest score, which could be an awesome idea). I don't think the individual notes should be released, as they aren't in the other subjective sports, but at the very least each team's total difficulty and total execution scores would be nice to see. Heck, maybe if it's possible they could have it broken down into categories.

    To be clear, I'm a firm believer that the whole way cheer is judged should be changed. In an ideal world, coaches submit their difficulty scores at the start of the day (listing number of skills in each category, maybe even a video submission for stunts if it's too complex), one judge comes up with D scores based on elements, and a second judge watches the routine to ensure all skills listed are getting thrown. If they are all thrown, they keep their D score, if someone chucks a tuck instead of a layout, then it's lowered significantly enough to deter coaches from listing skills that aren't always thrown and putting them in the routine. At that point, the judging panel only has to focus on execution, and yes that will still vary, but if the D scores across all panels are at least all scored by the same person in advance then there's some consistency. Logistically I understand this would be very tricky, but it's not impossible.

    The bottom line in my opinion is that scores should never be hidden or some huge secret; there is absolutely no reason that competitions can't be transparent other than the fact they know their scoring is inconsistent and they don't want an uproar. But, the uproar is here anyway, so may as well start working towards a solution vs. just ignoring it as is and trucking on.
     
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  9. Bella's mom

    Bella's mom Last Pass... on International Open 1

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    We did a competition several years ago, and are scheduled this season. It’s Live!. They release your score while you’re still on the mat. Then you sit in the winners lounge until someone in your division kicks you off of the top spot. The kids loved it! And it took care of the waiting around for awards!


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  10. SthrnCheerMom

    SthrnCheerMom I text ACEDAD all the time

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    That’s One Up. You wait until someone One Ups you. Kind of fun.

    If I’m not mistaken, NCA releases the entire score sheet. It broke down where each point came from.
     
  11. luv2cheer92

    luv2cheer92 Moderator Staff Member Bracket Winner Video Curator

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    Live! is another comp that does the live scoring.

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  12. quitthedrama

    quitthedrama I buy my Insta followers

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    NCA had gotten away from posting any scores for a few years but last year was one of the most transparent and I think nearly everyone appreciated it. Bottom line, nearly very sport is subjective to a degree - lately football and basketball have become even more so in some ways than cheer when specific bad calls or non-calls determine the outcome of the game. When bad calls are made there is review from the governing body after the fact and either discipline or education can happen. Fans, coaches and players get mad, take to social media, etc and the next day life goes on. Mistakes are going to happen and I think reasonable people understand that, but hiding scores gives the insinuation that the EP has no confidence in their judging system and/or they want to control who wins/receives bids. That is never good for any sport or activity.
     
  13. CC1107

    CC1107 I text ACEDAD all the time

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    Why isn't your gym sharing the information they receive? The practice after each comp is scoresheet review for our teams, parents are welcome. They share scores, scoresheet comments, deductions, placement within a division....is this not the norm?
     
  14. quitthedrama

    quitthedrama I buy my Insta followers

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    I'm not sure sharing with parents is the norm - I have never been part of a program that did that, and I'm perfectly fine not having that detailed information. Scoresheets were always reviewed with the athletes.
     
  15. CC1107

    CC1107 I text ACEDAD all the time

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    Well, there are lots of parents that don't go, its just a 10 minute quick review, if more detail is needed they share with the athletes - but we would never not know the score....or the scores in our division. The coaches always, always will share that with us