All-Star Please Tell Me I Am Wrong

[dawgshow]

A little off-topic but related because it has to do with safety. Out of curiosity : how many of your CP's have had baseline concussion testing? CP's school does it for everyone, not just student-athletes.

My kids' middle school did one for every student. I don't know if it needs to be updated as they get older, though. Do the outcomes change?

 

[CookieMomster]

My kids' middle school did one for every student. I don't know if it needs to be updated as they get older, though. Do the outcomes change?

Our PT said it needs to be done every season because the brain develops. Our Worlds athletes have it covered in their fees but not for lower levels. So we have it done and it gets covered through our insurance.

 

[alpaca]

My kids' middle school did one for every student. I don't know if it needs to be updated as they get older, though. Do the outcomes change?

CP has it done every year.

 

[Wendy Trekster]

Bottom Line: Everyone who knows anything about All Star U18 Cheer knows that the most prestige comes from winning Large Senior L5, All Girl and Coed - they are looked up to and admired.

To devalue or discredit the NT division is short-sighted and ignorant. The NT division does not take away from any other division, but it does give more opportunity for athletes that have not mastered tumbling for whatever reason.

To me it's like saying the gymnast that only competes on the beam and wins a medal is of less value than the gymnast that does all-around. Yes, the prestige comes from the All-Around and it takes mastering all of the disciplines, but it doesn't take away from the specialist that masters the beam.

 

[quitthedrama]

To devalue or discredit the NT division is short-sighted and ignorant. The NT division does not take away from any other division, but it does give more opportunity for athletes that have not mastered tumbling for whatever reason.

To me it's like saying the gymnast that only competes on the beam and wins a medal is of less value than the gymnast that does all-around. Yes, the prestige comes from the All-Around and it takes mastering all of the disciplines, but it doesn't take away from the specialist that masters the beam.

It is of less value.
Every gymnast at the elite level has to have advanced through the levels of each event to be considered for Olympic and World events. You can't be level 1 on beam and be considered for the World Championship, so by your own analysis the NT division shouldn't exist at the elite level.

 

[Wendy Trekster]

It is of less value.
Every gymnast at the elite level has to have advanced through the levels of each event to be considered for Olympic and World events. You can't be level 1 on beam and be considered for the World Championship, so by your own analysis the NT division shouldn't exist at the elite level.

Apologies if you misunderstood - Elite gymnasts that only do Beam are still Elite, they would never advance that far and be a Level 1 - The same should be true of NT - I would expect teams that compete at certain levels (Worlds) would be higher caliber and higher skills.

And the fact still remains, the NT division does not take away from the other divisions, and it's a gyms choice to participate in it or not - I would expect the level of competition to be very high with the gyms that are participating.

 

[Kiermyc]

Apologies if you misunderstood - Elite gymnasts that only do Beam are still Elite, they would never advance that far and be a Level 1 - The same should be true of NT - I would expect teams that compete at certain levels (Worlds) would be higher caliber and higher skills.

And the fact still remains, the NT division does not take away from the other divisions, and it's a gyms choice to participate in it or not - I would expect the level of competition to be very high with the gyms that are participating.

To me in comes across as someone else’s light is going to take away from my shine. A NT division does not affect any other division. People within cheer are smart enough to know the difference and will know well xyz won worlds and they are NT and abc won worlds and they are all girl Sr 5. And the bright note is people outside of cheer mainly have no idea what people in cheer are doing and are clueless about what worlds is anyway. NT just brings more people into cheer the same as the new novice and international divisions. Cheer can continue to be this inclusive you can’t sit with us sport or it can grow into something bigger.

 

[tojofasho]

Wow the Non-Tumbling discussion really took off in this thread, and there are some good points being made on both sides of the aisle. Let me try to approach this discussion from the perspective of someone who just came out of retirement and tried out for allstar cheer this past month. Because of the time I took off between my last year cheering and now, my tumbling is level 2 or 3 at best, but my stunt technique has remained and is a solid level 5/6 (coaching has helped me maintain this over the years). I think I can honestly say that I am the ideal candidate for the Nontumbling divisions being introduced, and would love for one to exist in my area. With that being said, I really think they're a great idea best placed at the Summit with Open 4. There is absolutely no reason for these new divisions to be taking place at the World Championships except in the sense that USASF wants more money.

To recap:
Are the divisions a good idea? Yes.
Should they be put on par with World Champions? No.
Am I insulting the athletes by saying that? Definitely not - I think I'm still an awesome athlete, but I also know I'm not Worlds caliber.

 

[DancerDude0118]

All I can say is... @Ashley has her work cut out for her come Worlds 2019 brackets.

 

[Ashley]

All I can say is... @Ashley has her work cut out for her come Worlds 2019 brackets.

Ugh I have my work cut out for me just getting RTW up and running for the 2019 season.

 

[TealShades]

Ha and here I was planning on completing a worlds bracket this year....guess not lol.

 

[catlady]

No disrespect, but I have to laugh at the defense of adding level 5 NT as preventing injuries or helping better quality teams get to worlds. I have already heard of multiple gyms who have no business fielding a safe and competitive level 4 team based on current stunt ability announcing they are fielding a NT Worlds team. At least with tumbling the athlete is only capable of hurting themselves - now entire stunt groups are at greater risk for injury. I predict we are about to see some extremely scary, unprepared and poorly coached NT teams this season. If preventing injuries was a true reason, then level 5 wouldn't be the place where they would introduce this division.....

I don't recall anyone stating NT was going to prevent injuries, and "no", NT won't be the magic to prevent stupidity. What it will provide is an option for many AS athletes that have chronic injuries, are blocking, are on the cusp of 5 tumbling, and many extremely talented stunters that end up leaving AS. As the level 5 tumbling requirement bar continues to rise, so do the ACL/ MCL/ meniscus tears, dislocations, sprains, and breaks. The human body, especially a child's, has limits. It's an option, not the end all or answer to everything.

The only debate I find legitimate is whether or not it deserves to be at World's. IMO, much like skiing in the Olympics (alpine, cross country, freestyle, nordic combined, jumping), there can be variations of a sport that medal that are equally impressive. With that said, I'm sure there is probably a skiing debate on what category is the most elite or well rounded.

 

[Adrirocks]

Ha and here I was planning on completing a worlds bracket this year....guess not lol.

I made one for the first time ever last year and the edition of xsmall made it tricky not sure if I will do it this year. Or I might but only really try on a few divisions.

 

[AndyT_T]

I don't recall anyone stating NT was going to prevent injuries, and "no", NT won't be the magic to prevent stupidity. What it will provide is an option for many AS athletes that have chronic injuries, are blocking, are on the cusp of 5 tumbling, and many extremely talented stunters that end up leaving AS. As the level 5 tumbling requirement bar continues to rise, so do the ACL/ MCL/ meniscus tears, dislocations, sprains, and breaks. The human body, especially a child's, has limits. It's an option, not the end all or answer to everything.

The only debate I find legitimate is whether or not it deserves to be at World's. IMO, much like skiing in the Olympics (alpine, cross country, freestyle, nordic combined, jumping), there can be variations of a sport that medal that are equally impressive. With that said, I'm sure there is probably a skiing debate on what category is the most elite or well rounded.

This. Many of the best of the best collegiate stutters can't tumble at all. In UCA that's fine because of the scoresheet, but those same guys often wouldn't make all star teams because they can't at least do jumps to back.

 

[FamousxMindset]

Anyone who thinks NT is a less than Worlds title obviously has no idea what it's like to stunt for almost 2:30 seconds.